FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[ShaCoboY]

I have a question about protein %. When soak or ferment the feed, it absorbs much water, so it actually decreases all nutritional value figures.
It's like you cook lentils or beens and the dry product has like 20g protein per 100g product. But after coocking it's something like 8g/%.
The chickens also eat less, from what i mannaged to observe.
But doesn't it leave them with less protein than they need?

 

[lazy gardener]

Hello, Everyone!

This thread inspired me to ferment for the chickens (was already doing it for us) a few years ago and I'm so glad!

My big girls always ate it all, but I'm now fermenting for chicks (whole flock was wiped out in November

). They didn't like it when they were tiny so I let them have dry for a bit and now that they're two weeks old I got an active ferment ready.

Chicks didn't finish all of breakfast (I'm still figuring out amounts) so I just dumped the couple Tbs onto the deep litter and flipped it over to bury it. Do you see a problem with this as far as safety of finding it later?? Do you think it'll attract mice/rats? I have the coop as tight as possible, but it's inevitable that they find a way in.

Thanks!

What are you using for heat for your babies? As long as it's not sitting under a heat lamp, baking all day, I'd simply cut back the next day's feeding just a bit until you seem to come out even. Of course that's always a matter of adjustment cause they grow so fast. What satisfied them yesterday, won't be enough for them tomorrow! I'm often around during the day, so it's not an issue for me to feed them in the morning, and add more at mid day if they've finished their first batch. The thing with FF is that it won't "go rancid" the way wet mash might. B/c it's full of beneficial organisms, the worst that is likely to happen is the the ferment will ripen. When they are little, I like to serve it up on a slab of cardboard.

I have a question about protein %. When soak or ferment the feed, it absorbs much water, so it actually decreases all nutritional value figures.
It's like you cook lentils or beens and the dry product has like 20g protein per 100g product. But after coocking it's something like 8g/%.
The chickens also eat less, from what i mannaged to observe.
But doesn't it leave them with less protein than they need?

That is not really an issue. Most of the feed literature says that a LF chicken will eat approximately .25# of feed/day. When your flock eat, they eat enough to satisfy their hunger and calorie and protein needs. When that food enters their crop, it does not stay dry. They drink a LOT when they eat dry feed. Ever feel a chicken's crop at the end of the day? You won't feel dry feed in there, but it will feel like a solidly packed snow ball. (where as if you catch a hen first thing in the morning, and feel her crop after she's mowed into the dry feed, you will feel dry pellets, kind of like what poking at a bean bag chair feels like) So, whether you feed dry feed, or wet feed, in the crop, it's gonna end up wet. When you ferment your feed, you will give them as much as they want to eat. Initially, they will eat A LOT. But over a 2 - 3 week period, you will find that their consumption will drop off, as they get those nutrient needs bulked up. Some nutrient levels in the FF will actually increase b/c of the action of the beneficial bacteria and yeast (I think B vitamins increase). And your birds will absorb more nutrient as a whole b/c their villi in their guts increase their efficiency, the beneficials break down the antinutrients in the grains, and the improved gut flora help the birds to break down the grains as well. Similar to you eating yogurt. A cup of yogurt will be more beneficial to you than a cup of milk.

 

[chicken curious]

Thank you for the advice mobius and lazy!

I'm using the mama heating pad/electric hen for heat (idea from BYC) so the food is not exposed to extra heat and temps here are 65-80 degrees right now...food's in the shade. Eventually a gutter trough will be in the run and not the coop, but right now it's in a food grade container on a brick on top of the deep litter.

I don't want to put extra back in the ferment b/c they do manage to kick some litter in there, but I can move their 'dinner' feeding to earlier in the day and then remove for the night.

Despite fermenting for so long, it's nice to come back and chat when I come across new issues/ideas!

ShaCoboY, x2 what lazy said!
Nutrition increases/is more bioavailable due to fermentation. You'll notice their poop smells less because there's less undigested food left. I like to think that they get the most from every bite and, therefore, need less bites. Plus, having *any* fermented food in their diet increases their gut health, both in the chicken's physiology (gut villi) and the beneficial gut colonies. Better gut colonies help digestion and assimilation of nutrients, but they also effect immune strength. In humans the gut is about 70% of the immune system. I'm not sure the amounts in a chicken, BUT helping gut health is surely beneficial.
As far as wet vs dry, my hens have always fared well especially in the summer because the wet food helps them to be hydrated and they aren't always acting on a deficit due to dry food digestion's need for water.

 

[Kiki]

Thank you for the advice mobius and lazy!

I'm using the mama heating pad/electric hen for heat (idea from BYC) so the food is not exposed to extra heat and temps here are 65-80 degrees right now...food's in the shade. Eventually a gutter trough will be in the run and not the coop, but right now it's in a food grade container on a brick on top of the deep litter.




I don't want to put extra back in the ferment b/c they do manage to kick some litter in there, but I can move their 'dinner' feeding to earlier in the day and then remove for the night.

Despite fermenting for so long, it's nice to come back and chat when I come across new issues/ideas!

ShaCoboY, x2 what lazy said!
Nutrition increases/is more bioavailable due to fermentation. You'll notice their poop smells less because there's less undigested food left. I like to think that they get the most from every bite and, therefore, need less bites. Plus, having *any* fermented food in their diet increases their gut health, both in the chicken's physiology (gut villi) and the beneficial gut colonies. Better gut colonies help digestion and assimilation of nutrients, but they also effect immune strength. In humans the gut is about 70% of the immune system. I'm not sure the amounts in a chicken, BUT helping gut health is surely beneficial.
As far as wet vs dry, my hens have always fared well especially in the summer because the wet food helps them to be hydrated and they aren't always acting on a deficit due to dry food digestion's need for water.

your avitar is PRECIOUS!

 

[chicken curious]

Thanks, KikisGirls! My sister brought my 2month old niece over to try to get an Easter pic with a few of our chicks before they hit the awkward teenage stage. There was at least one cute pic, but this is my favorite! That little barnyard mix bantam was so calm even when Sinclair was kicking her legs! Then we tried a leghorn and ended up with pics with a yellow/white blur! LOL

 

[Mom2Sav]

I use a loosely fitting lid with holes in it. It's a 5 gallon bucket.

 

[chicken curious]

Right now for the 7 almost three week old chicks I only ferment in a glass quart jar. My son used a hammer and nail to put some holes in the metal top for air.
When I had bigger girls I used a 1 gallon container (for years) with a hardware cloth and heavy rock lid
I've never used 5 gallons so that seems huge to me

 

[igorsMistress]

I tried FF a second time yesterday in the beloved pie pan and they finally gave it a try. It was empty when I went back so it must have been ok! They didn't care for the boss though.

I seem to have good luck with a glass jar on the ceramic tile in my dark hallway during the AZ summers. The tile seems to help keep the temp more consistent and it only took 2 days.

I'm using a bigger jar next time!

 

[Deb T]

What is the difference between wet mash and FF?

 

[Kiki]

What is the difference between wet mash and FF?

I do not know.
I would guess that wet mash is just soaked feed...but not quit fermented?

Not sure.