FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[chickengirl1193]

Okay so because our ferments have oxygen throughout, it doesn't create alcohol? Maybe im smelling the vinegar and mistaking it for alcohol. This is cool applying what I learned in school to making feed for my chickens.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

IMO, it isn't an either/or when it comes to oxygen. Each different bacteria and yeast will prosper with varying degrees of oxygen saturation or lack thereof.
You may still be making some alcohol. No real way to know for sure without testing.

 

[Beekissed]

Okay so because our ferments have oxygen throughout, it doesn't create alcohol? Maybe im smelling the vinegar and mistaking it for alcohol. This is cool applying what I learned in school to making feed for my chickens.

One of our other members has the equipment for measuring the amount of alcohol being produced and reported it to be so negligible that it couldn't possibly affect the birds. The LABs produce alcohol sugars as a byproduct of their metabolic processes, which are promptly consumed by the acetobacters, which converts them to acetic acid...vinegar as a byproduct of their metabolic processes. What you are smelling is vinegar.

Vinegar is one of the few liquids approved by the USDA for canning as it can kill off or inhibit the growth of botulism. Vinegar is the good guy.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
No worries...it happens all the time on this forum. The lines are pretty much sharply drawn in the areas of livestock vs. pet keeping, natural management vs. chemical intervention and that battle is being fought on here all the time. Usually it's the pet/chemical faction that want to argue and scrap about it because the other folks are pretty secure in their management ideas and don't have any doubts as to the effectiveness of it...they've tried it and proven it works for many years and are satisfied with the continued use of it.

The other fellows are in a constant battle for the lives of their chickens and trying this or that medicine to try to keep them alive...they are pretty desperate and are understandably on edge from it all.

It's sort of like using the FF....no one wants to believe that it's just that simple, so they try to complicate it to make it fit into their minds better.

Simple is always better...down through the years and in so many ways in life, simple wins out.

Not sure where we got into religious debates in the thread...I must have missed it...but I'd prefer that it not be debated or discussed to that degree. Debates on religion should take place in each person's own heart and mind and have no place on a chicken forum. Talk about or mention your religion in passing, give thanks or acknowledge your faith....fine. Debate it or go in depth about the pros and cons of it all? Not fine...not the place to have deep discussions about such weighty matters. I ask that one take it to PM so we can keep the thread open and moving along.

 

[LindaB220]

I know they are a chain, and probably on a big box store similarity, BUT..... there is a TSC being built in my town!!!

Now granted, I live on what we call a desert island. We are 200 miles equidistance from Phoenix, Las Vegas and Palm Springs in a Bermuda triangle. We are not a city or a subdivision from anything. We are alone out here and the nearest closest towns are 45 minutes to an hour and they are smaller than us.

We have a Walmart which is 26 miles roundtrip from my house, no Sam's or Costco. I am just amazed with the minimal of agriculture we have in this area that TSC is even building. We have one VERY small feed store and most of the feed is special order for poultry and equine. She has quite a following for superior dog food.

I will always support the local retailer and will buy my feed from her as long as I give her notice to get it ordered, but everyday supplies it will be great to have TSC here.

Great for you.!!!!

 

[Searsmom]

Diatomaceous Earth. But for chickens or other animals, be sure it is food grade and no other is acceptable for use.

So what food grade use do you have for DE? I'm not sure I want the skeletons of minuscule sea life in/near my food at all. Not making fun, it just made me blink and do a double-take.

Okay so because our ferments have oxygen throughout, it doesn't create alcohol? Maybe im smelling the vinegar and mistaking it for alcohol. This is cool applying what I learned in school to making feed for my chickens.

I asked my beer-making DH about that. He said that beer you buy in a store has none of the yeasty bits from the fermentation process left and it's those that are beneficial. Grains, maybe - beer no.

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote: I have heard of lots of "different" treatments for autoimmune... Arthritis I believe is an Autoimmune disease... Bee sting is one.... Matter of fact I was driving down the road coming home from my house.... On the free way .... nice spring day kind of warm had the window open.... when I hit a swarm of honey bees making their way across the freeway. About a hundred were sucked in my windo and pelted me. I felt several light stings through my clothing. Now I am not alergic but I got worried over the fact that there were so many that it might cause me to go into shock.

I pulled off the freeway on an off ramp and parked at the cul desac at the intersection... This was on The La Posta Indian REservation. I jumped out of my truck walked behind it and whipped off my shirt. about twenty dead bees fell out.... Couple of cars drove by.... I figured they would look but not for long.... LOL.. Felt the shirt all over no stingers.... put it back on. My arms had a couple of red spots but that was all I could find. there was another set of bees in the truck. All dead. I swooshed them out.

I guess the point is.... All the next day and for most of the next My Arthritis pain was diminished by half. Psychosematic... Probably... But it was a great relief.

I have a similar view toward religion as you.

deb

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote: Food grade Diatomaceous Earth is not altered in any way.... It comes out of the ground the process it to screen out chunks and bag it.


The Dangerous DE is the stuff for pool filteration. In order to make it a better filter they heat the DE up in a kiln of sorts to change the crystallization of the Diatoms.... To make them sharper... in essence. More better for filtering water down to the micron level. It is the white powser your pool guy puts in the pool filter.... And for Aquarium keepers the same stuff is used in some cannister filters.... The old style. This stuff is a serious risk for sciliosis...? damage to the lungs.

For what its worth the first step in making Vinegar is Alcahol. Alcahol occures in nature.... Have you ever seen birds staggering about under a Peach tree whos fruit has gone over..... LOL... they are drunk.

deb

 

[pdirt]

This.may be my ignorance again, but when fermenting feed dont you naturally create some alcohol anyway? Or is this a different kind of.fermentation?
Sometimes my feed has a slight alcohol smell

If you let sourdough starter ferment long enough, often we will get a small amount of alcohol. Sometimes our sourdough bread even has a very mild alcohol smell when we first pull it from the oven. I imagine the same *could* happen for FF but only if the yeasts get way out of balance. I haven't had it happen. Just keep your FF in good rotation and that should keep the alcohol at a minimum. My experience with making vinegar from alcohol is it takes weeks for much vinegar to be produced. The acetobacter don't seem to produce acetic acid as quickly as LABs can produce lactic acid. Most likely the vinegar type smell you smell is lactic acid. But it doesn't really matter as either one is helpful for keeping the bad bacteria in balance.

AFIK, lactic acid bacteria don't generally produce alcohol. I did find one study that shows, under the right conditions (anaerobic silage fermentation in this case), lactic acid can convert to smaller amounts of acetic acid and trace amounts of alcohol.

http://aem.asm.org/content/67/1/125.full

I wouldn't worry about the alcohol unless the smell is strong or is getting stronger. Most ferments of grain will produce small amounts of alcohol, you just want to keep tabs on it. If it keeps producing a strong odor, I'd compost the rest and start over.

Prior to the cultivation of specific strains of yeasts, all production of alcohol and bread was made via "wild fermentation" with yeasts naturally present in the air and on fruits, grains and vegetables. It's exactly what we are doing with FF but with it geared toward enhancement of LAB than alcohol. . if we all started mixing in large quantities of fresh or dried fruit in our FF, then we would surely have an alcohol problem.

 

[Tikkijane]

[Archie.girl" url="/t/645057/fermented-feeds-anyone-using-them/2430#post_12926746"]I have heard of lots of "different" treatments for autoimmune...  Arthritis I believe is an Autoimmune disease...  Bee sting is one.... Matter of fact I was driving down the road coming home from my house.... On the free way .... nice spring day kind of warm had the window open....  when I hit a swarm of honey bees making their way across the freeway.  About a hundred were sucked in my windo and pelted me.  I felt several light stings through my clothing.  Now I am not alergic but I got worried over the fact that there were so many that it might cause me to go into shock.

I pulled off the freeway on an off ramp and parked at the cul desac at the intersection...  This was on The La Posta Indian REservation.  I jumped out of my truck walked behind it and whipped off my shirt.  about twenty dead bees fell out....  Couple of cars drove by....  I figured they would look but not for long.... LOL..  Felt the shirt all over no stingers....  put it back on.  My arms had a couple of red spots but that was all I could find.  there was another set of bees in the truck.  All dead.  I swooshed them out.

I guess the point is....  All the next day and for most of the next My Arthritis pain was diminished by half.  Psychosematic... Probably...  But it was a great relief.

I have a similar view toward religion as you. 

deb
[/quote]

That is not in your head. Bee juices a viable therapy. Bee venom therapy is good stuff, imo. They use it to treat MS, RA; I've read about some good sucess with Fibro, even.

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