FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[subhanalah]

Ok we milked her and got some fluid out. No antibiotics or wormers or anything different from the other birds. she has had a saggy crop for a while, but being my first chickens I just thought she was fat. I should have known better she is more towards the bottom of the pecking order so I was confused about why she was fat. The chickens get a lot of kitchen scraps, but I just checked all the other chickens and no one else has a squishy or swollen crop. I feel bad because she has probably had it for a while. The best way I can describe it is it's like she has huge breasts and they swing when she walks. sorry to be so graphic. I can feel her breast bone under her crop so I know now that it is not that she is fat. She is in a cage with just water now. Should I try and milk her again tomorrow?

perhaps it isn't yet sour crop and just a pendulous crop?is there a bad smell?there are "bras" you can buy to help keep the crop moving. In the mean time you can gently massage her crop down whenever you notice it getting big.

 

[Beekissed]

Ok we milked her and got some fluid out. No antibiotics or wormers or anything different from the other birds. she has had a saggy crop for a while, but being my first chickens I just thought she was fat. I should have known better she is more towards the bottom of the pecking order so I was confused about why she was fat. The chickens get a lot of kitchen scraps, but I just checked all the other chickens and no one else has a squishy or swollen crop. I feel bad because she has probably had it for a while. The best way I can describe it is it's like she has huge breasts and they swing when she walks. sorry to be so graphic. I can feel her breast bone under her crop so I know now that it is not that she is fat. She is in a cage with just water now. Should I try and milk her again tomorrow?

I wouldn't. Just let her hydrate and let her digest...I wouldn't cage her as she needs to exercise to help her digestion. I think this chicken just might have a pendulous crop as was mentioned and maybe not a sour crop. I'd lay off the kitchen scraps and offer some good grit. Just give the FF for now and you may want to give her a little olive oil to help slide things along.

If you intend to keep this chicken~and I wouldn't recommend it~they have bras that chickens can wear to correct a pendulous crop.

 

[skitzkle]

I has leaning towards culling. I haven't read anyone with great success curing sour crop. I like my chickens but they are not pets and I am not going to medicate it on and off the rest of it's life. I am not putting her in a bra either. I will give her 3 days to clear up and then make a decision. If anyone has any good success without a ton of medication I am willing to try it.

 

[subhanalah]

You can try massaging her crop, fasting her from food (for a day) and giving olive oil and grit to help get things moving again.

 

[Beekissed]

I has leaning towards culling. I haven't read anyone with great success curing sour crop. I like my chickens but they are not pets and I am not going to medicate it on and off the rest of it's life. I am not putting her in a bra either. I will give her 3 days to clear up and then make a decision. If anyone has any good success without a ton of medication I am willing to try it.

That's exactly what I would do. No chronic conditions in the flock...they are time consuming and they yield nothing, in the long run. Even if you had success, if she developed it once she may develop it again and it's simply not worth the worry of wondering when it will happen again.

 

[Tikkijane]

I just caught her and caged her. The crop is squishy, huge & full. She just pooped and it looks normal. The girls had yogurt every few days because my family wouldn't eat it. Should I try massaging it until she throws up?

Search threads here on ascites.....

 

[ChickenCanoe]

That's exactly what I would do. No chronic conditions in the flock...they are time consuming and they yield nothing, in the long run. Even if you had success, if she developed it once she may develop it again and it's simply not worth the worry of wondering when it will happen again.

Sooo time consuming. IME, in the long run, there's rarely anything worth saving.

 

[pdirt]

I think it was this thread we were discussing a few days ago (can't seem to find it now) about the pros/cons of fermenting feed that has Fertrell Nutribalancer (or another similar premix). From the horses mouth, the animal nutritionist at Fertrell, Don Brubaker:

"I would not put our Poultry Nutri-Balancer through the fermentation process. I feel that it would be best to add it just before feeding at a rate of 3% of what ever you are feeding."

I've since asked him why he recommends this and am waiting his response. I mean, I imagine that the fermentation process improves nutrition possibly even better than such a supplement, but I'd hate to be wasting money IF (big if, as in, I don't have the answer yet) getting the supplement wet negates the vitamins.

Stay tuned...

 

[Beekissed]

I think it was this thread we were discussing a few days ago (can't seem to find it now) about the pros/cons of fermenting feed that has Fertrell Nutribalancer (or another similar premix). From the horses mouth, the animal nutritionist at Fertrell, Don Brubaker:

"I would not put our Poultry Nutri-Balancer through the fermentation process. I feel that it would be best to add it just before feeding at a rate of 3% of what ever you are feeding."

I've since asked him why he recommends this and am waiting his response. I mean, I imagine that the fermentation process improves nutrition possibly even better than such a supplement, but I'd hate to be wasting money IF (big if, as in, I don't have the answer yet) getting the supplement wet negates the vitamins.

Stay tuned...

I would imagine it's because they really hate all of us fermenting our feeds and making them stretch further, thus reducing our need to buy so much feed....that hits their pocketbook.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I think it was this thread we were discussing a few days ago (can't seem to find it now) about the pros/cons of fermenting feed that has Fertrell Nutribalancer (or another similar premix). From the horses mouth, the animal nutritionist at Fertrell, Don Brubaker:

"I would not put our Poultry Nutri-Balancer through the fermentation process. I feel that it would be best to add it just before feeding at a rate of 3% of what ever you are feeding."

I've since asked him why he recommends this and am waiting his response. I mean, I imagine that the fermentation process improves nutrition possibly even better than such a supplement, but I'd hate to be wasting money IF (big if, as in, I don't have the answer yet) getting the supplement wet negates the vitamins.

Stay tuned...

I have written to them, too! They haven't answered me yet, but I am expecting very much this answer.

(For me, this is another reason, along with what I consider to be a questionable protein source & some overly "precious" customer service attitudes, for not buying certain brands of feed that already have NutriBalancer mixed in. What I do is stir NutriBalancer into my daily serving of Fermented Feed just before the feed bucket heads out to the coop. I'm using a bit less than the full 3%, and I offer calcium on the side. I started doing this at the same time I started fermenting some of their feed because my already-rough-looking flock went into a simultaneous and hideous molt ... and boy is my flock looking and ACTING so much better now! SO much better!)

As I stated before, I believe this is due to the way water soluble vitamins lose potency when exposed to moisture. For example, if you grind up a niacin pill to add to drinking water for ducks, then the water will have to be changed at least every 24 hours, and new niacin ground up & dissolved into it, to keep the potency of the niacin close to adequate. You even have to ingest water soluble vitamins "every day" to keep enough of them in your system because your body flushes them out ...

This is why it is so much harder to overdose on water soluble vitamins.

BK has made a very good point, several times, about the increased nutrition of properly fermented feeds ... about how much the niacin (specifically) is increased in properly fermented corn ... so presuming we are fermenting our feeds properly, then there is less need for (at least some) supplements. If I hadn't been in such a panic about the state of the flock, I would have started with Fermented Feed first, and then added supplements if I didn't feel the birds responded well enough with "just" that.

I think this is a very interesting facet of the discussion of fermented feeds ... how to best use our ingredients to get the most nutritious results for the birds.