FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[subhanalah]

Someone here pointed out that without FF, my flock could have been sicker than they have been. I'm counting on FF to give them nearly normal, healthy lives in spite of being infected with a terrible disease.

The lab just called and confirmed the diagnosis of lymphoid leucosis, a form of avian leukemia. It's not Marek's, but it's still viral and contagious. Izzy, my rooster whose corpse I sent to have the necropsy done, had a liver so full of tumors it weighed two pounds! His mama has the disease and passed it to him through the yolk of his egg. His daddy probably succumbed to the bone form of the disease. At the time, I thought he had broken his leg, but he was more likely to have become lame from a bone tumor. Instead of healing, Penrod became sicker and sicker, probably because tumors were taking over his organs as well.

I just got off the phone with my friend who has chicks that spent a few weeks in with my flock before I turned them over to him. He took it better than I thought he would when I told him his flock was also infected and a few of them may become sick in the years to come. This is a very contagious disease, laterally infecting chickens through fecal and dander contact.

Looking back over the years, recalling the various chickens in my flock that have become ill and died, I can see the various manifestations of the disease, which was likely present in the very first adult hens I adopted. One died suddenly overnight, falling dead off her perch, probably because of enlarged organs. Another had to be euthanized because she had become so lame she could no longer stand or walk. She probably had what made Penrod lame.

So, I've had to accept that this is the flock I've been dealt. I'll give them the best care I can and hope for mostly normal lives for them with the help of FF. 

if you decide to go with only vaccinated chick's from now on, they need to be kept from exposure for three weeks after the vaccination is given.

Don't worry, it's not the end of the world. I once saw a thread about having a flock with marek's in the emergency and disease section. It was called something like "not an emergency" and also had "marek's" in the title.

 

[niqueie]

Poor chickens. I'm glad that you have found out what's going on. So sorry. At least many seem to be living normal lives. Glad you've found FF to help them along.

 

[azygous]

I just received further encouraging news. This form of lymphoid leucosis is not long-lived in the environment. And it is mainly transmitted vertically from parent to offspring, not bird to bird. So it's a lot less difficult to deal with than regular Marak's. This was information just given to me by the lab doctor in a followup call.

So there is hope for a future flock that is free of this disease. If I live that long, that is.

 

[silcoxalb]

Amanda, I . Lolomise you that fermented feed did not cause you chicks to be roosters.       Join in more.  It's fun and we get to know one another. 
[/quote]

Phew!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I just received further encouraging news. This form of lymphoid leucosis is not long-lived in the environment. And it is mainly transmitted vertically from parent to offspring, not bird to bird. So it's a lot less difficult to deal with than regular Marak's. This was information just given to me by the lab doctor in a followup call.

So there is hope for a future flock that is free of this disease. If I live that long, that is.

They're not the same thing at all though they can resemble one another. Marek's comes from one of six herpes viruses. LL is caused by a retrovirus and as you learned, doesn't live long off the body of the chicken.

LL affects birds over 6 months (usually 25-40 weeks) and Marek's under 6 months (usually 10-20 weeks)
LL doesn't cause paralysis, eye tumors, nerve tumors but Marek's does.
LL causes bursal tumors but Marek's doesn't.
Other symptoms can be similar between the two diseases.

 

[azygous]

So, I'm wondering how this disease managed to enter my flock. Obviously, my four-year old Brahma Joycie has it or her chick Izzy, wouldn't have had it. Since Izzy matured, he managed to mate with every hen in the flock, so he's probably infected all the girls, if they weren't infected before.

Then there're the five chicks that were in my flock for a couple of weeks before they were transferred to my friend's flock. I warned him they could be infected, but how likely is it really?

And what about Joycie? She was very sick prior to Izzy getting so sick. She seems to have recovered, and is gaining her weight back and eating okay now. We know she has to have the disease or Izzy wouldn't have had it, but why did she recover?

If it weren't for microscopic confirmation, I'd be questioning the diagnosis.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Unlike Marek's, LL can't be prevented by vaccination.
Like Marek's, it's everywhere and all chickens are infected by the time they reach maturity. It can be transmitted from contact with infected birds, from breeders through eggs or by blood-sucking parasites. Many birds are resistant

 

[azygous]

That's encouraging information. Thanks.

 

[Tikkijane]

I'm really having trouble this summer with the FF.  It turns into rock hard clumps, even in the bucket by about the 3rd day.  I've tried different lids/towels, mixing it drier to start, etc.  It won't stay crumbly or moist, no matter what I change.  The only thing I haven't done is keep it wetter.  The chicks graze all day long and eat insects and stuff, so they don't run over and eat it all at one time.  They take a few bites, go off to eat some grass, etc.  I got rid of 6 roosters, so I am down to 11 chickens now (11 week old bantams) and I only give them about 2 cups of food per day.  The clumps get rock hard - I can't break them up with my fingers at all.  Yesterday I added water to what was left of the FF to start a new batch.  Even after about 10 minutes of soaking, it required plenty of effort to mash up the clumps.  I just poured up the last of my original bag of starter.  I've got a bag of Flock Raiser that I'll use next.  Just for grins, I'm going to try keeping this current batch wetter and see what effect it has. 

If I could keep it inside, I think it would be fine, but I'm even getting a lot of flack of having it outside because it smells so bad.

I like a 1:1 ratio. Try adding more water...

 

[Tikkijane]

This shows you what a newbie I am.  Or dementia.  

Not at all! That's how we learn, lololol.