FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Beekissed]

My biggest issue with FF is that a lot of my chicks end up with really hard crusty balls hanging from their chins. And the other chicks try to pull them off. When I try to work them off, it takes forever.

It seems to go away as they get bigger, but is there anything I can do to remedy it? It keeps their feathers in that location not fluffy. So aside from it being ugly, I guess I worry about them getting chilled. But I assume they would let me know if they were cold.

Thoughts?

Yep...mix it drier. Too wet feed will stick to feathers and dry there but if you mix it to a cornbread type consistency you'll not have that issue.

 

[omalicha]

Wow I mistaken

It sounds as if they are recovering from something, since you've had a few die and some that acted sick for a bit...could be you could up some nutrients and it may help.  Are they having diarrhea?  Others would advise deworming but I'm more of a natural husbandry kind of gal, so if I wormed it would be with all natural substances like garlic, pumpkin seeds, ginger root, etc. 

Could you post a pic of these raggedy birds?  It sure would help to be able to see a close up of what you are seeing.  Have you checked them for mites and lice?  It could contribute to the weight loss even though they have plenty of food and it could also contribute to feather loss.  It's hard to trouble shoot when one doesn't get to see and handle the bird but it certainly isn't natural for birds with plenty of food and free range to be so skinny and poorly in appearance, so you have to look at the probable causes being from external sources such as parasites or illness. 

Side notes: 

Since you are offering FF, you probably don't need the ACV in the water unless you are placing it there to keep the water fresher. 

A quick way to increase nutrients is to place a little~and I mean a little because this stuff is powerful~calf manna in your FF to increase vitamins and proteins for birds that are recovering from illness or parasite infestation. 

 

I mistakenly flagged this comment for my personal note incase my chicks get sick and need to recover . I thought the flagging was for my personal note ! I just saw its a report. How do I reverse this

. Still trying to get the hand of the app using my mobile . Someone help!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

@Beekissed do you have a link to info on natural worming? And do you use DE? I have never wormed in the past but am understanding there may be a need to do so even without symptoms.

We have septic and well water, so I try to avoid all chemicals possible. And remove animal waste from the property regularly to keep from having to much build up of parasite/bacteria/whatever. I don't treat my dogs for fleas, we don't have them (in 7 years). Vet says I need to use a preventative anyways. I get that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure though. But trying to prevent something that isn't a problem only to cause another like cancer doesn't make any sense to me.

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge,
May God richly bless you!

 

[Beekissed]

@Beekissed do you have a link to info on natural worming? And do you use DE? I have never wormed in the past but am understanding there may be a need to do so even without symptoms.

We have septic and well water, so I try to avoid all chemicals possible. And remove animal waste from the property regularly to keep from having to much build up of parasite/bacteria/whatever. I don't treat my dogs for fleas, we don't have them (in 7 years). Vet says I need to use a preventative anyways. I get that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure though. But trying to prevent something that isn't a problem only to cause another like cancer doesn't make any sense to me.

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge,
May God richly bless you!

A simple search can find you many alternatives to chemical wormers, though few of them will list some specifically for chickens....just general herbs and such that are known antihelmitics. You also won't find dosing recommendations, as there haven't been studies done enough to warrant finding effective doses.

I have a few links on small studies done on pumpkin seeds and ginger in comparison with traditionally used chemical dewormers.

No, I don't use DE, nor do I even recommend it, for various reasons. Some swear by it, though, so they should be able to tell you how they like it and use it.

I agree with you on the vet recommendations....all geared towards making them money but not exactly for the life and health of the dog.

Here's one great link I've found on that topic: http://thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

And right beside that one I found a study..... http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00436-015-4416-0?no-access=true

http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/a...xima-pumpkin-seeds-carica-papaya-papaya-seeds

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3668217

I usually don't concern myself with deworming much, though if I think about it I'll likely do it once or twice a year to all animals....usually use garlic, ginger root, or pumpkin seeds. If I had chickens in a coop and run situation I might do it more often, but since mine can free range and find their own deworming tools(saw grass is one of these and I've found it in gizzards time and again...the dogs and cats use it too), I don't get too concerned about parasites.....I butcher often and explore the bowels for signs of parasites, finding none, so the birds are being quite efficient at their own worm removal.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

A simple search can find you many alternatives to chemical wormers, though few of them will list some specifically for chickens....just general herbs and such that are known antihelmitics. You also won't find dosing recommendations, as there haven't been studies done enough to warrant finding effective doses.

I have a few links on small studies done on pumpkin seeds and ginger in comparison with traditionally used chemical dewormers.

No, I don't use DE, nor do I even recommend it, for various reasons. Some swear by it, though, so they should be able to tell you how they like it and use it.

I agree with you on the vet recommendations....all geared towards making them money but not exactly for the life and health of the dog.

Here's one great link I've found on that topic: http://thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

And right beside that one I found a study..... http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00436-015-4416-0?no-access=true

http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/a...xima-pumpkin-seeds-carica-papaya-papaya-seeds

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3668217

I usually don't concern myself with deworming much, though if I think about it I'll likely do it once or twice a year to all animals....usually use garlic, ginger root, or pumpkin seeds. If I had chickens in a coop and run situation I might do it more often, but since mine can free range and find their own deworming tools(saw grass is one of these and I've found it in gizzards time and again...the dogs and cats use it too), I don't get too concerned about parasites.....I butcher often and explore the bowels for signs of parasites, finding none, so the birds are being quite efficient at their own worm removal.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I am anti DE for many reasons, just wanted to know with your experience where you stood on it.

My chickens also free range. Maybe that's part of the reason I haven't had too many (none so far) issues.

Garlic, ginger, and pumpkin seed all sound delicious. Just not together.

We are going to be getting real familiar with butchering before long. I think it's great to be able to find out things about the health of your birds during the process. I will surely be emotional about it, but believe it's the best way to avoid the cruel/callous industry.

Do you find FF to alter the flavor or quality of your meat in any way? And if you had to put down a bird for an injury (broken leg or something) would you still eat that bird or avoid it because it was stressed prior to dispatch?

Thanks again.

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I am anti DE for many reasons, just wanted to know with your experience where you stood on it.

My chickens also free range. Maybe that's part of the reason I haven't had too many (none so far) issues.

Garlic, ginger, and pumpkin seed all sound delicious. Just not together.

We are going to be getting real familiar with butchering before long. I think it's great to be able to find out things about the health of your birds during the process. I will surely be emotional about it, but believe it's the best way to avoid the cruel/callous industry.

Do you find FF to alter the flavor or quality of your meat in any way? And if you had to put down a bird for an injury (broken leg or something) would you still eat that bird or avoid it because it was stressed prior to dispatch?

Thanks again.

Yes, it alters the flavor of the meat.....it seems to remove any of the taste of the barnyard from the smell and the taste of the meat. It clarifies the taste so that all you smell is meaty goodness and the flavor is the nutty, sweet flavor of meat and no after notes of corn/feed/manure. It makes for the most flavorful broth and also the silkiest and most flavorful rendered fat I've ever had in all my years of eating farm grown birds. I'd never go back to feeding the old way for various reasons, but the flavor of the eggs, meat, fat and broth is a huge incentive!

Yes, I'd eat a bird that's been put down due to injury....ALL animals are stressed before they die, as the body will go into a fight or flight reaction to blood loss and this sends adrenaline racing throughout the body, signaling it to MOVE(you'll see this in the flapping, kicking, convulsing of the body), sends the heart racing to fill blood volume to the blood vessels, increasing respiration to get more O2 to the tissues, etc.

The best way to avoid getting emotional about it is to view it much like putting up vegetables out of the garden. They all must be sliced up and processed in order to turn them into food for the body and so do the animals. If you can use a clinical eye while doing so, you will learn more about chickens than you ever will from books....examine all the body parts, compare them to other bird's parts, look at their position in the body, note color, texture, etc . If you can look on it as work and learning instead of the more emotional aspect of it, soon you can train yourself to approach it in that manner...it's just a dirty job that someone has to do in order for you to eat. Might as well be you.

I wish you well for your food production!!!

Bless you this day and all the days to come!

 

[Kiki]

Bee kissed.
I really love the way you just explained the "emotional" part.
I have a 13 yr who really wants to be a Vet.....I think when it's time for me to butcher birds this would be a great leaning experience for her.

Thank you!
PS. I give my chicks fresh garlic at least once a week.

 

[ShanandGem]

I am really enjoying fermenting my feed, although I only let it sit overnight so maybe it's not technically fermented. They eat everything now and don't leave the hard oat and wheat kernels because I think they must be softer and more enjoyable. When I mix it with my cooked beans/fish/spinach/corn there's a nice 'broth' that forms that my newly hatched chicks just love. I think it must be very fortifying for them.

 

[Love4zion]

Should I use my airlock lids like I'm making a batch if sauerkraut. Its a big thread and I'm still sifting and learning.

 

[Kiki]

Should I use my airlock lids like I'm making a batch if sauerkraut. Its a big thread and I'm still sifting and learning.

Im not sure BUT i think it need air....I put a cloth over my jar with a rubber band to hold it on. (to keep bugs out but let the air in)