Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[TipihlowLadies]

It's not all that hard.  Order some CX, feed FF, water, and butcher in eight weeks.  I've been following this formula for a number of years and it works every time. 

Are your bird's confined or able to free range in tractors

 

[charthorn]

I do it both ways. Some years we have a lot of coyotes and foxes around so I keep them in a tractor. When predators are not so bad I keep them in a tractor for about four weeks, after that I let them free range but lock them up and feed them in the evening.

 

[MeckTheHen]

I was reading a blog about "lacto-fermenting" feed on Naturally Chicken Keeping's site http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/p/fermented-feed.html

Sue, who wrote the blog, explains the two types of fermentation. The one which uses yeast, produces alcohol and the alcohol is then metabolised by acetobacter bacteria into acetic acid. And the second being lacto-fermenting, which you do by keeping the feed under water so that the ferment is anaerobic, which apparently doesn't produce acetic acid but rather lactic acid, produced by the lactic acid bacteria. Sue says she throws out fermented food if she smells a yeast smell.

I started one of my batches with a splash of my husband's beer that he's brewing in the bathroom. That batch fermented beautifully and seems fine. After reading the Naturally Chicken Feeding blog, I then went and started a new batch with no starter, and completely covered in water. That batch has fermented slower. It smells quite different to my 'beer batch' - it's less sour smelling, more sort of earthy. I've tested both batches with the girls, and they eat both quite happily (in fact, they prefer the sour 'beer batch').

My question is, do you think a yeast batch is not as nutritional as the 'lacto-ferment'? Or do you think it doesn't matter how the ferment happens? What's the general opinion?

 

[Tikkijane]

Just read replies a few posts up: I get it! Sounds easier than draining it out (thanks Linda for pointing this out). How do you keep enough 'starter soup' though for the next batch, if it all soaks into the feed?

Is 3/4 cup dry food to ferment enough per hen if I have "heavies" like australorps and orpingtons?

Thanks!

Backslop and refresh- save about a single serving, add water, stir, add feed, stir. Lather, rinse, repeat. Essentially, it's the never-ending-bucket.

If you backslop and refresh at night, the new batch will be ready in the morning.

 

[Tikkijane]

If you ever have any question about whether or not a lacto-ferment has gone bad or not, test the pH. You can get test paper for cheap and it will show you instantly the pH. In general, anything below 4.5 is okay, in my opinion around 3.8 is ideal. I don't think a 100% diet of really acidic (3.3 or lower) fermented feed is ideal, I think it's too acidic. I think they should have some unfermented feed or at least from free-ranging time where they will get some unfermented items. Could you imagine eating a diet of 100% very sour foods?

I use this pH paper: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hydrion-Mic...895637?pt=US_Garden_Tools&hash=item3f3cbc08d5

But since your feed smelling incredibly sour, I would bet money that your pH is plenty low. Smell can tell you a lot, but I found the test paper very helpful at first when I doubted my nose. Above 4.5 and the likelihood of of "bad bacteria" thriving and populating increases and below that it decreases. Most of the studies of FF I have read have used a pH of 4.5. As the pH drops, the chances of "bad bacteria" even existing anymore decreases big time. The acidic nature is not hospitable to the bad bacteria and the lactic acid bacteria also destroy them.

So to answer your question, no, I doubt you've got bad germs in the 2 month old batch, but the nutrition will degrade after a while, especially the proteins, as they get consumed by the good bacteria. You could mix in some sort of protein item into the batch to boost the protein while you use up the batch. Perhaps next time don't make as big of a batch so it get's used more quickly.

I see things a bit differently..... we're going for good gut flora here. Given that chickens have very few taste buds, I don't worry about sour being an issue at all. It seems to me to be counter-productive to give super food but then stop. Treats are one thing. I've fed FF 100% of the time for almost a year without issue.

For whatever that's worth.

I agree that bad buggies are unlikely. If you think your current batch is over-ripe, try making smaller batches until you find a balance your nose can live with....

 

[pdirt]

I was reading a blog about "lacto-fermenting" feed on Naturally Chicken Keeping's site http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/p/fermented-feed.html




Sue, who wrote the blog, explains the two types of fermentation. The one which uses yeast, produces alcohol and the alcohol is then metabolised by acetobacter bacteria into acetic acid. And the second being lacto-fermenting, which you do by keeping the feed under water so that the ferment is anaerobic, which apparently doesn't produce acetic acid but rather lactic acid, produced by the lactic acid bacteria. Sue says she throws out fermented food if she smells a yeast smell.

I started one of my batches with a splash of my husband's beer that he's brewing in the bathroom. That batch fermented beautifully and seems fine. After reading the Naturally Chicken Feeding blog, I then went and started a new batch with no starter, and completely covered in water. That batch has fermented slower. It smells quite different to my 'beer batch' - it's less sour smelling, more sort of earthy. I've tested both batches with the girls, and they eat both quite happily (in fact, they prefer the sour 'beer batch').

My question is, do you think a yeast batch is not as nutritional as the 'lacto-ferment'? Or do you think it doesn't matter how the ferment happens? What's the general opinion?

That blog post has some good info, but I find her description of the two different types of ferments confusing.

No matter what kind of ferment you have, you are going to have yeasts. It's normal and part of the the family of microbes that do the fermenting, just because you smell yeast, doesn't mean the ferment is bad. If you smell alcohol or beer, then you may want to start over. If its just a little bit of alcohol, no worry, but I wouldn't feed that sort of feed long term.

If the yeasts get out of balance, meaning there are way way more yeasts that lactic acid bacteria (LABs) and acetobacter, then you'll get alcohol fermentation. I wouldn't make a practice of using your husbands beer project because you may upset the balance. A little bit could kick start the yeast production, but too much start too much alcohol, faster than could be broken down by acetobacter, which turns alcohol into vinegar. The LABs need yeast to grow, they use the dead yeast bodies as food. It's all about balance.

I other words, seeing bubbles only tells you that the yeasts are active. It doesn't tell you the LABs are active, you can tell that when it starts to smell sour. If you smell both yeast and sour, you're on the right track. If you only smell sour, you're on the right track. If you only smell yeast, it's not ready yet.

It's not really that complicated, but I have enjoyed learning more about the different fermentation processes, since they are sometimes unpredictable.

 

[pdirt]

I see things a bit differently..... we're going for good gut flora here. Given that chickens have very few taste buds, I don't worry about sour being an issue at all. It seems to me to be counter-productive to give super food but then stop. Treats are one thing. I've fed FF 100% of the time for almost a year without issue.

For whatever that's worth.

I agree that bad buggies are unlikely. If you think your current batch is over-ripe, try making smaller batches until you find a balance your nose can live with....

Oh, I realize I'm likely in the minority here. Not trying to convince anyone otherwise. There is something though that intuitively does not make sense to me to be eating or feeding acidic food ALL the time. It's not about the flavor of sour for the birds, but having SO much acid in their tract, all the time. I'm with you on going for good gut flora, but I'm not convinced that more is better in this case. And my "gut feeling" about it all could be just plain wrong. Soaked/sprouted I can understand, but highly acidic I don't. Perhaps I will change my tune one day, I've been known to do so a time or two before!

 

[chickkrakidd]

...

Oh, I realize I'm likely in the minority here. Not trying to convince anyone otherwise. There is something though that intuitively does not make sense to me to be eating or feeding acidic food ALL the time. It's not about the flavor of sour for the birds, but having SO much acid in their tract, all the time. I'm with you on going for good gut flora, but I'm not convinced that more is better in this case. And my "gut feeling" about it all could be just plain wrong. Soaked/sprouted I can understand, but highly acidic I don't. Perhaps I will change my tune one day, I've been known to do so a time or two before!


[/quote
Lol @pdirt I have to say, I think agree with you. I mean it's not like I eat fermented pickles, sauerkraut (which I don't really eat anyways), or tomatoes& oranges every day. If I did, I'd probly have a very bad acid reflex problem& maybe stomach users. So it may not be a good idea for the chickens either.

 

[chickkrakidd]

Some how my reply got put in the quote. Not sure how that happened.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Dressed out my first fall chicken; nearly 7lbs on the biggest one! Wet feeds are definately the way to go! They really improve growth and health. Keep in mind, these are still very healthy animals I processed! Beautiful, red livers... Lungs and heart were so healthy that when I removed them they all came out together in one piece! I can't even imagine needing a lung scraper with how healthy those suckers were! And these birds were still running to me for their morning feed every day. I flipping love raising my own chickens!