Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[knjinnm]

Make sure Phil and Lil eat higher protein than that free feed.

Turkeys need much more protein than chickens to grow properly.

If you notice them lagging, switch them back to more grower. If you find they are doing well - all the more to you. I wouldn't personally do it, as corn is not a balanced diet, and I've heard a lot of nasty things about soybean.

I feed 60% grower to 40% scratch grains (my scratch grain is low on the corn).

Thanks for responding to this comment. I also wondered about the high corn content of the diet especially since both the corn and soybeans are probably GMO products.

 

[countrygirl74]

Covering in water is the best way to go.....1 cup of UPACV for 9 cups of dry feed is pretty strong. It will be ferminting for sure. You might need to add more mash and put it in a warmer place to get things going good. Once it gets going good you will be fine. You can feed anytime. It will become more fermented as time progresses. The chickens will get used to it if you do feed before it starts to get going.
You also do not need to add anymore ACV. Using a smaller strainer might work, but, the original design is a two bucket system designed to be lifted out of the ferment and fed out of the top bucket after straining. Some just put a strap or stick across the top of the bottom bucket and let it strain enough to take the feed off the top.
I was fortunate enough that my buckets have handles and when I lift the top bucket the handle can sit on the edge of the bottom bucket and strain if I want it strained. I do like to feed pretty wet. The birds get the extra cultures from the liquid. And I have ducks who love all of that slop. If any is left over and frozen, I toss that into a bucket to use for something else for the ducks.
Because this does not work for many they use a one bucket system and feed a less wet mixture that does not need to be strained.
You need to find out what works best for you.
On vacation or gone for a day, just plan a head. The birds will do fine with one feeding.

Need two days? Get heated dog waters and place buckets of FF in them. Icecream buckets work great. It holds a gallon of feed.You just have to lift out and replace with the full buckets. You just need to figure out how many dog waters you need. A gallon of feed will feed many birds.I have 17 birds and feed less than a gallon.
No matter what you do, or how you do it, you are giving your birds benificial cultures and saving money. It is a win win. Good luck!!

Thanks for all the helpful info! I think I just need to get it warmer and I won't add any more ACV for now.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I Haven't been on this thread in awhile and there are so many posts! I've been skimming as quickly as I can

*****************
I wanted to re-post from a different thread an example of my "little" fermenting container. Here is a little bit of a preface.

- At the time I made this post, I only had 6 adult chickens and 4 new hatched. If I were making ff for a larger crowd, I'd go to a bucket.
-I keep this right on my kitchen counter. If I have to go to a bucket I'd likely keep it on the floor in a corner somewhere out of the way.
-The container is an Anchor Hocking truffle bowl.

-There are several different ways to ferment. I prefer to ferment like you would ferment veggies (sauerkraut, cucumber pickles, etc.) and proliferate LACTIC ACID BACTERIA (LAB) rather than yeasts, etc. My goal is not toward alcohol - like when fermenting fruits toward wine/cider. My goal is to create a balance of good bacteria that keeps yeasts in check rather than proliferating.
-Lactic bacteria (LABs) are the same kind of bacteria you would find in yogurt and cheeses, and fermented sauerkraut and pickles (not the mold cured cheeses - different process).
-When LABs digest sugars (carbohydrates) they excrete lactic acid. This is what gives the ferment the "tangy" or "sour" flavor like in pickles/sauerkraut, etc.
-The ferment will not use up all the carbs in the mix. Adding new feed daily continues to add new carbs for the LABs to digest.

-In this type of fermentation, the lactic acid is what preserves the food. This is a process of food preservation used for centuries. As the acid level raises in the food (pH lowers) it keeps "bad" bacteria from being able to grow in the food. Same with yogurt. Good bacteria proliferate, and the acid they put out keeps the bad bacteria from growing...and your yogurt tastes "tangy".

-This type of fermentation is done anaerobically. The food must be kept under the water level to keep the air from getting in which encourages the overgrowth of bad yeasts (which causes that putrid smell some have experienced! This is why you see the water level at least an inch above the ferment in the post.


That is a little preface to help understand the process I'm using.
*****************


Here's the cc of the post:

Here's the photo of my little fermented feed bowl. It is an Anchor truffle bowl (like a pyrex storage container but taller and holds more. I got it at Meijers.) I have 6 adult hens and now the 4 babies and this makes enough. I take out some in the morning then put another scoop of dry in the bowl, add water stir and go on my way. They may end up getting another feeding later in the day depending on what's left in their bowl.

In this photo you can see the height of water above the feed...it's about 1" above. In this photo the sediment hasn't totally settled as I just stirred it not too long before.



When you first get started, you'll put the water in and stir it up, and you'll think there's plenty in there. Then when you look at it in a couple hours it may have soaked up all the water and you'll have to add more and stir again. Just keep doing that until it has enough water. Then when you take some out to feed, put in a little more dry and some water and stir it all together. As you go, you'll get a better idea of how much water you need to use. After it starts to get going well it will start to smell a little like pickles.

As far as a culture starter...
-Some use ACV.
-Some don't use any starter at all and just do "wild fermentation".
-Some use a little whey.

So far, I've tried all of the following as starters to see which I liked best. I'm listing them in order from my favorite to my least favorite:
1. Juice from my fermented sauerkraut
2. Experimental pack of starter for fermenting veggies. (This would be similar to using the sauerkraut juice...has the same Lactic Acid producing Bacteria (LABs).
3. Whey from cheesemaking
4. ACV,



******************

Some clarification:
There are some different things going on in fermentation.

-When you use YEASTs to ferment - like when making beer - the yeasts are digesting the sugars and producing ACETIC acid.
-When you use BACTERIA to ferment - like when making sauerkraut, yogurt, etc. = the bacteria are digesting the sugars and producing LACTIC acid.

I prefer to propagate the LABs (Lactic Acid Bacteria) rather than using yeasts for many reasons.

When using bacteria to ferment you will also get some "wild fermentation yeasts" joining the crowd as they're in the air and on the items you are fermenting. However, there are ways to help the bacteria along and continue to create a balance that favors the LABs.



Someone asked about "depleting energy" in feed when using ff. They just had a misunderstanding of the term "energy" and were referring to carbohydrates.

As far as them digesting the sugars - yes, that is the process in fermenting. The sugars are being digested by either the yeasts, bacteria or both. That is what the process of fermentation is all about.


As far as reducing energy-producing sugars - your body is able to produce plenty of energy without them...no problem. But the reality of it is, most of us don't ferment so long that every sugar (carbohydrate) has been fully digested so there are still plenty in there. If you ever fermented to that point, the bacteria would begin to die for lack of food since that's what they digest.

This has been a very condensed version to explain what's happening. Could put a lot of technical stuff in there, but there it is in laymans terms.
On this batch I used a couple tablespoons of the juice out of a jar of my fermenting sauerkraut.

 

[delisha]

Like always LM, you have a way with words. Well said and explained why.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Like always LM, you have a way with words. Well said and explained why.

Thanks!

 

[kapie9969]

Hi,well first i was looking for info on red rangers and then ended up here? Anyhow i considered a mash but have never done it.My bantams dont like layer feed.My spoiled babys like romaine lettuce and cheap wild bird seed mix from the local hard ware store.Wich at first they first didnt like.I also sprout clover and mung beans.They also go crazy for purslane. Ill try fermenting some grain soon.
There wasnt enough pages here on this subject.

 

[groverlvchx]

sarcasm?

 

[countrygirl74]

Quote: Hmmm.... I find this very interesting. I have just started making my own LAB - I learned off of YouTube from a video related to Korean Natural Farming. I planned on using it to spray on my deep litter along with eventually making IMO4. In your opinion, should I start making my ff with the LAB I am making instead of using ACV? I don't make sauerkraut or anything... looking for easy ways to make ff that is good for my chickens and ducks and help keep down feed costs as I buy only organic.
Also, can you share about how many cups of ff you would estimate daily that 12 chickens and 4 ducks would need based on your experience with the amount of birds you have? I don't want them to be too hungry... I have been feeding them twice a day lately but not ff yet as I just started that recently. They can easily consume a minimum of 12 cups 2x daily between all of them and I'm not sure if I'm feeding them enough. There is never any feed left within 20 minutes. I hope it will go down some using the ff as it seems like the feed bag is going down fast! I am just trying to figure everything out this way - the 1st 3 months of their lives, I just gave dry crumbles, free-feed. I know a lot of people have mentioned that they only feed once a day but my birds are always acting like they're starving and they eat everything I give them in the morning and at night. There's nothing to eat outside right now and some days we have scraps, some days none.

 

[Leahs Mom]

When you say you're making LABs, can you explain how you're doing that? I will comment on the other things...I'm just wanting to be sure I understand what you mean so I don't make any assumptions.

 

[countrygirl74]

When you say you're making LABs, can you explain how you're doing that? I will comment on the other things...I'm just wanting to be sure I understand what you mean so I don't make any assumptions.

I am doing the rice wash, letting it sit, then feeding it with milk and letting it sit again... are you familiar with that? I learned from Bryan McGrath who practices some of the methods of Korean Natural Farming. He has several videos on YouTube to show how to make that as well as IMOs 1-4 (indigenous micro-organisms) for your garden and chicken coops.