Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Kilsharion]

8 sq. meters equals just over 86 sq. feet, NOT 26 sq. ft. Quite a difference.

Trimmed beaks and commercial stock does IN NO WAY equal "stock that loves to go all cannibal on you, esp in confined spaces". I have some debeaked former battery birds (production reds) that are the most docile I've ever seen and definitely not cannibalistic.

Day old ff is still just the same old ff as what's in your bucket, it makes no difference whether it's in your bucket or in the birds' feed dish... it is the same age and the same stuff. If my birds have any feed left in their bowl the next day I dump it on the ground and it becomes magic to them, they love it even better with dirt and poop scratched into it.

Ah, you are quite correct. My math-fu failed me.

For some reason, I've always associated the breed they used with cannibalism. Mayhap it is my bias against the breed.

Day old FF around here only happens when I leave a pile of it somewhere for whatever reason. When that happens, I've noticed that it tends to become quite solid and smells a bit off. I wouldn't go near it, nor feed it to my birds. I try to avoid letting their feed get poop scratched in it - which is why their feed is put where it is...and, their water.

But, that's me. And, everything I've written has been solely from my perspective....which is all anyone can offer, really. Even the studies are done in a specific environment with specific situations, steps, etc. And, unless you mimic it exactly...well, any one variable can affect outcome, in my experience. Like forgetting to pick up the milk on your way home when you intended to make chicken and dumplings for dinner....**sighs** Got everything I needed....except the milk. Dumplings with water can be accomplished; but, the flavour is just...not quite right.

If it works for you and your birds - for anyone and their birds - then rock on. Happy times. It's all about ensuring the health and welfare of the flock and flock keeper; and, what works for one may not work for another. There are way too many variables in anything to say, "You must do XYZ or you are wrong." I don't buy into that way of thinking. All I can do is offer my position, my opinion and what works for me.

 

[yinepu]

Quote:

Quote:
production layers DO have a higher incidence of cannibalism... which is one reason it is standard practice to debeak them

 

[Mikedero]

This is what I use - there are others available but I hate fermenting anything but mash. No shipping - we have a local drop. Here is a picture of how easy it is to scoop it out and put in the dishes. it drains easily through this big "strainer" spoon I picked up from Wal-mart - no complicated bucket systems or anything - just one bucket next to my feed bag. Of course, I have just around 10 full-grown chickens and 4 full-grown ducks and 9 new chicks. I just add more feed as I use feed, and add water as needed.

Holy cow that stuff is expensive, but I like what i am reading about it. thank you for the link

 

[ChickChickChicky]

production layers DO have a higher incidence of cannibalism... which is one reason it is standard practice to debeak them

They debeak them not because of the breed used, but because they shove them into tiny cages which allow little room for movement. It is the gross overcrowding which makes them aggressive and cannibalistic, not the breed.

 

[yinepu]

Quote: sorry.. i have to disagree..

I have relatives who raise broilers as well as layers for the commercial industry and have been raising them since the late 60's.. the leghorns and other production breeds have a higher incidence of cannibalism.. (I am assuming it is because of the higher protein demands from laying so many eggs). In a coop of assorted breeds they are usually the first to resort to cannibalism EVEN IF they have sufficient room. I just went through this with some production leghorns attacking and killing other birds. The had plenty of room. plenty of feed, plenty of roost space. However the Ideal 236 birds were the instigators of vent pecking. I have caught them in action going after hens that had just laid eggs when the other birds were ignoring those same birds.

from here: http://www.nutrecocanada.com/docs/shur-gain---specialty/are-your-birds-hen-pecked-.pdf


"Vent Pecking. Vent pecking is the most severe form of cannibalism. It is generally seen in
high-production layer flocks or young overweight maturing hens. Layers with a history of some
other pecking problem can also start vent pecking. The target area includes the vent or the
region of the abdomen several inches below the vent. A prolapsed oviduct and tearing of the
tissues by the passage of an abnormally large egg are two predisposing factors. Vent pecking
can result in anemia due to blood loss. A prolapsed oviduct is usually permanent and results in
other birds pecking until the affected bird bleeds to death. Affected birds need to be culled from
the flock."

Beak Trimming
Beak trimming is a routine husbandry procedure in the commercial poultry industry, particularly
in breeding and laying hens.

and from another link:
The pulling out of
feathers of another bird is commonly observed in flocks
kept in close confinement, whereas the pecking of the
vent region is often observed in high-production pullet
flocks that are kept in cages (Riddell, 1991). Vent-pecking
has also been observed in loose housing systems (Gunnarson
et al., 1995). In either case, cannibalism often becomes
severe unless the birds have been properly beak-trimmed
(Mauldin, 1992).

 

[stone_family3]

So I made a small batch yesterday afternoon. Looks like it takes about two days to be ready, so tomorrow will be test day for the birds. Here is what it looks like, would you say good or let it sit longer?

 

[countrygirl74]

I say you are good to go!

 

[Kilsharion]

Looks like a good fermentation has begun.

 

[stone_family3]

sorry.. i have to disagree..

I have relatives who raise broilers as well as layers for the commercial industry and have been raising them since the late 60's.. the leghorns and other production breeds have a higher incidence of cannibalism.. (I am assuming it is because of the higher protein demands from laying so many eggs). In a coop of assorted breeds they are usually the first to resort to cannibalism EVEN IF they have sufficient room. I just went through this with some production leghorns attacking and killing other birds. The had plenty of room. plenty of feed, plenty of roost space. However the Ideal 236 birds were the instigators of vent pecking. I have caught them in action going after hens that had just laid eggs when the other birds were ignoring those same birds.

from here: http://www.nutrecocanada.com/docs/shur-gain---specialty/are-your-birds-hen-pecked-.pdf


"Vent Pecking. Vent pecking is the most severe form of cannibalism. It is generally seen in
high-production layer flocks or young overweight maturing hens. Layers with a history of some
other pecking problem can also start vent pecking. The target area includes the vent or the
region of the abdomen several inches below the vent. A prolapsed oviduct and tearing of the
tissues by the passage of an abnormally large egg are two predisposing factors. Vent pecking
can result in anemia due to blood loss. A prolapsed oviduct is usually permanent and results in
other birds pecking until the affected bird bleeds to death. Affected birds need to be culled from
the flock."

Beak Trimming
Beak trimming is a routine husbandry procedure in the commercial poultry industry, particularly
in breeding and laying hens.

and from another link:
The pulling out of
feathers of another bird is commonly observed in flocks
kept in close confinement, whereas the pecking of the
vent region is often observed in high-production pullet
flocks that are kept in cages (Riddell, 1991). Vent-pecking
has also been observed in loose housing systems (Gunnarson
et al., 1995). In either case, cannibalism often becomes
severe unless the birds have been properly beak-trimmed
(Mauldin, 1992).

Is it possible that cannibalism in those circumstances can be due to bad breeding?

 

[stone_family3]

Yay! Looks like I'll scoop some out with their morning feeding!

Looks like a good fermentation has begun.

I say you are good to go!