Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[ash10383]

Quote:
When I first started, I had 3 buckets of ff and rotated them to let them each ferment 3 days (stirring each day and reusing the drained off water) putting in the same amount of that I had been feeding of dry feed so I knew how full my strainer was feeding the same amount so I know they were eating the same amount of dry (only now soaked and fermented). I have sinced moved to 1 large bowl leaving some feed in everyday to kick start the ferment but that added extra steps because my feed mix contains BOSS and I was soaking that seperately to make sure I had the correct ratio since they float to the top and do not mix in well with the other soaking grains plus I had to dress it (measured out seperately also) with the fish meal & yeast since the fish stinks to high heaven while fermenting and I wasn't confident that it wasn't draining out with the water since it is so fine. I have laying hens and a batch of meaties right now so this was all X2. I have 11 hens 6 are just a year old and 5 that are 2 years old and usually get 9 eggs a day which is about what I'd expect

 

[Lacy Blues]

When I first started with the ff, it seemed to me that my birds ate MORE than they normally did of the dry stuff. This went on for a while, I didn't keep records so I'm not sure how long, after probably at least a couple of months they started to taper off on how much they ate.

I am still working on finishing off the last of my H&H feed (which has fishmeal in it)...after that, I'm on my own mix....My own mix is two part. The parts I ferment: grains, seeds and legumes. The parts I add after the fermentation: nutritional yeast, ground meal worms, powdered kelp, spirulina, dried skim milk and supplemental vitamins and minerals.

I've also supplied the link to a Pearson's Square calculator that I'm more than happy to provide again for people if they would like to have it.

No criticism here, but I'd like to add just to clarify this... please note that you should NOT avoid animal proteins... your chickens need animal proteins. Many of us who ferment ferment only our grains and then add the premix ingredients such as fish meal, nutribalancer, meat and bone meal, limestone, etc... to the fermented grains.
I keep a container of dry ground grains and a container of premixed powder ingredients. I ferment the grains, and when I weigh out my ff each morning I then add (by weighing) the appropriate amount of premix powder to the ff and then stir and tada...
Please note... if you are feeding by weight (or parts) you need to account for the increase in weight of your grains from dry to wet... this is easily done by weighing only 1 lb of your grains, fermenting that one lb by itself, and then weighing it again. For instance my fermented grains are 2.25 times the weight of my dry grains. This means that 2.25 lbs of wet grains get the equivalent of premix that would be required for only 1 lb of dry grains.
Yes.. I keep an excel spreadsheet in the feed room that calculates all this.
I purposely have the same grain combinations for chicks as for laying hens so that I always grind the same ratios of dry grains for all management groups and then I simply have two different buckets of premix already made up (I do this about once a week), so that I add the premix according to each management group - more limestone for layers, more protein for chicks.

Hope that helps

I seem to remember Kilsharion sharing her recipe before and though I searched high and low, I can't seem to find it now. I'm sorry to be a pain, but could both of you share your feed recipes? Also, maybe your sources for the premix ingredients? I appreciate all your help.

 

[Kilsharion]

I seem to remember Kilsharion sharing her recipe before and though I searched high and low, I can't seem to find it now. I'm sorry to be a pain, but could both of you share your feed recipes? Also, maybe your sources for the premix ingredients? I appreciate all your help.

Lacy, my system crashed the other night in the lightning storm and wiped out my drives. I'm currently restoring the data; but, it's going to take a while. As soon as I get the files back online (thank goodness for Carbonite). I'll pull up the file and post my recipes. I can give you a rough idea of what's in my ferment mix, though. It's changed about six times in the life of this thread

Currently:


Crimped Corn (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Crimped Oats (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Millet (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Austrian Field Peas (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Sunflower Pieces (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Alfalfa hay (not meal...I actually take the stems of the hay and pull the flowers and leaves off into the fermentation - some of the smaller stems tend to get a good soak, too) - not all the time...it's more like a treat.

Sometimes I will add greens to the fermentation bucket. The fermentation breaks down the oxalic and phytic acids and gets them the benefits with less of the detriments.

Pre-mix for protein and nutrient balance:


Nutritional Yeast (45% cp) (I think I posted the link for where I get this back a ways...I'm hoping so because my bookmarks are shot, and finding a receipt in my files is a pain in the tukus)
Powdered Mealworm (56% cp) (another bookmark I have to find - actually, it's in my recipe spreadsheet if it will ever upload) / Whole, Dried Mealworm (considering starting a mealworm farm to make this fresh mealworms; but, I don't have the time, right now)
Powdered Kelp (online) (~6% cp - used for the micro and macro nutrients, not for the crude proteins)
Powdered Spirulina (online) (~59% cp)
Dried Skim Milk (I actually just get this at Sam's Club) (34% cp) - sometimes I get a deal at The Feed Store and wind up using Calf Milk Replacer instead; but, that's a significant drop in cp (from 34% down to ~22%).
Supplemental Vitamins and Minerals (0% cp) (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this, though I'm tempted to contact A&M who is doing a feed study and beg them to do a run on my pre-mix without the supplementals and let me know if I really need them)

Fresh mix:



Water Spinach (34% crude protein) - lovely to use when available
Duckweed (43% crude protein) - another one lovely to use when available

 

[BlueMouse]

interested in where you get your powdered mealworms whenever you restore data/find link! I need more animal protien in my ration come winter (right now they can tough it, plenty of bugs to be found!)

 

[Demosthine]

Instead of buying mealworm powder, have you thought about starting a mealworm colony? Far less expensive and ridiculously easy to do. Or even easier is a Madagascar hissing cochroaches. Those are better nutritionally, but slower at multiplying.

 

[chrispbrown27]

I have been reading through this thread off and on for some time now and got my first batch of fermented feed started tonight. Then I started thinking about something I had read a while ago about feeding chickens cat food to stimulate laying or to boost feathering after a molt and I was wondering if you could mix in some cat food with your fermented feed. I am not talking about all cat food or even a 50/50 mix, but maybe a 60/40 or 70/30 mix (higher percentage being chicken feed) for the higher protein. What does everyone think about this?
Chris

 

[Lacy Blues]

Lacy, my system crashed the other night in the lightning storm and wiped out my drives. I'm currently restoring the data; but, it's going to take a while. As soon as I get the files back online (thank goodness for Carbonite). I'll pull up the file and post my recipes. I can give you a rough idea of what's in my ferment mix, though. It's changed about six times in the life of this thread

Currently:


Crimped Corn (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Crimped Oats (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Millet (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Austrian Field Peas (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Sunflower Pieces (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this)
Alfalfa hay (not meal...I actually take the stems of the hay and pull the flowers and leaves off into the fermentation - some of the smaller stems tend to get a good soak, too) - not all the time...it's more like a treat.

Sometimes I will add greens to the fermentation bucket. The fermentation breaks down the oxalic and phytic acids and gets them the benefits with less of the detriments.

Pre-mix for protein and nutrient balance:


Nutritional Yeast (45% cp) (I think I posted the link for where I get this back a ways...I'm hoping so because my bookmarks are shot, and finding a receipt in my files is a pain in the tukus)
Powdered Mealworm (56% cp) (another bookmark I have to find - actually, it's in my recipe spreadsheet if it will ever upload) / Whole, Dried Mealworm (considering starting a mealworm farm to make this fresh mealworms; but, I don't have the time, right now)
Powdered Kelp (online) (~6% cp - used for the micro and macro nutrients, not for the crude proteins)
Powdered Spirulina (online) (~59% cp)
Dried Skim Milk (I actually just get this at Sam's Club) (34% cp) - sometimes I get a deal at The Feed Store and wind up using Calf Milk Replacer instead; but, that's a significant drop in cp (from 34% down to ~22%).
Supplemental Vitamins and Minerals (0% cp) (a place here in GTown called The Feed Store sells this, though I'm tempted to contact A&M who is doing a feed study and beg them to do a run on my pre-mix without the supplementals and let me know if I really need them)

Fresh mix:



Water Spinach (34% crude protein) - lovely to use when available
Duckweed (43% crude protein) - another one lovely to use when available

Thank you Kilsharion. I will copy and paste this into my files.

I have been reading through this thread off and on for some time now and got my first batch of fermented feed started tonight. Then I started thinking about something I had read a while ago about feeding chickens cat food to stimulate laying or to boost feathering after a molt and I was wondering if you could mix in some cat food with your fermented feed. I am not talking about all cat food or even a 50/50 mix, but maybe a 60/40 or 70/30 mix (higher percentage being chicken feed) for the higher protein. What does everyone think about this?
Chris

You can do it but I wouldn't recommend it. It will smell to high heavens. Also, if you're at all concerned about feeding GMO grains to your chickens, the dry cat food will be all GMOs.

 

[RedRidge]

I'll have to see where the old post is where I described exactly how I feed... in the meantime, here's a summary.
I have 3 parts to my feed... grains, premix, and BSF.
All ingredients are grown by us when possible, swapped with neighbors for what we don't grow, purchased as a last resort (much of my premix is purchased)
I weigh my grains and grind them with a small hammermill (combination of non-gmo corn about 40%, field peas about 33%, oats and/or wheat about 7%).
I mix up about 50 lbs at a time, so these grains after ground and mixed (about 40 lbs of them), go in an old wheelbarrow).
Then I mix up 2 different buckets of premix... one to balance out the ration to just over 20% for chicks, the other to balance it out to just over 16% for adults. The protein % of premix for each bucket is directly related to the amount of BSF I have available that week.
My premix is a combination of limestone, nutribalancer, alfalfa, and fish meal. (less limestone and more fish meal for the chicks).
Adults have free oyster shell available at all times too.

The other important thing to know is your dry to wet ratio... what does 1 dry lb of your grains weigh after fermented? This is important to know and much be run with a 24 hr test for each ration to determine how much premix you need. For instance... if I was mixing this same ration dry by weight I'd put 1 lb of premix in for every 4 lbs of dry grains. If those same grains weigh 9 lbs wet, then my dry to wet ratio is 2.25.
This is all entered into my excel spreadsheet so that every time I change my ration it is all automatically calculated for me... I don't want to have to use my brain when I feed at 6am each morning.

The spreadsheet with a change is price or % of ingredient in the ration changes everything automatically.
This way I track on the fly what the ration is, what is costs per lb, what the total protein is, and what the target protein is relative to the BSF I have available. It also tells me how many lbs of FF to feed for how many birds - again so I don't have to use my brain that early.

The other handy thing about putting your rations in a spreadsheet (in addition to making them easy to change and manipulate) is that if you are gone then it is easy and straight forward for someone else to follow.

I use only one bucket for fermenting my grains, scoop out what I need each morning, then add more.
I scoop out an estimate of what I need into a stainless strainer that sits over another bucket... then I weigh it.
If I want approximately 10 lbs of wet grains that morning, the chart will tell me how much premix to use (should be just over 1 lb). I do 2 mixes of ff each morning for each management group.

I let the layers out for the day (they only eat FF in the evening), and feed the chicks half their FF.
Some time mid-day everyone get their BSF.
At dusk the layers return to the coop... get their FF... go to roost.
At dusk the chicks get the 2nd half of their FF.
Yes it sits, all mixed up in buckets, for the day under a towel in the feed room... I only mix once a day.

 

[armorfirelady]

Redridge-
What is the purpose of the limestone? For grit?

 

[RedRidge]

Redridge-
What is the purpose of the limestone? For grit?

Yes... grit... I should have been more specific...
I use .5 lb per 50 lb batch for chicks... 2.5 lb for adults.