Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Beekissed]

Tried posting this on the Heritage thread, but didn't get any responses, so maybe somebody over here can help. I have a question about a chicken I just put in the fridge. One of our broody's was in bad shape when I went to feed this PM. Mouth full of slime, and extra runny poop. Wouldn't swallow when I put water in her mouth. When skinnin her, the crop was about 3/4's the size of my fist...pretty dang big. It also seemed very dry, not mushy at all. I feed fermented layer pellets only in the evening, but we were on vacation and the in-laws decided they need a little more food yesterday morning, and fed them straight wheat in the AM. The trough was still half full of wheat when I fed that evening. BTW, her crop was full of nothin but wheat. I think it was an impacted crop(if there is such a thing) that did her in, but what's also interesting was her innards. Everything had an extreme coating of yellow fat. You couldn't see any pink on the gizzard it was so thick. I never even saw the heart. The weirdest part was the liver. I could just poke it witha finger and my finger would go straight through. It was a meduim brown color, didn't look right at all. I've only butchered about 60 chickens and never seen anything like this, so I'm hoping someone may have a clue as to what was going on. Thanks,

Let me guess...was she a BO? Yes, it sounds like she died of an impacted crop. My chickens won't hardly eat wheat..even my meaties didn't want to eat it. It is very hard to digest as it has a very hard outer shell. Even softened and soaked in the fermentation it was their least favorite grain.

The liver was not a condition of eating FF, it was a condition of overeating or being overfed over a long period of time. If you don't overfeed, I'm thinking you have a bird that is overeating,more so than her peers. Increased eating, especially of high protein feeds, can cause a diseased, fatty liver and the increased storing of fats around the organs would seem to indicate that this is the cause and not necessarily what she was being fed, i.e. FF.

I was giving a processing demonstration this summer and someone brought two BOs over 2 yrs of age. Both had prolapses and were no longer laying enough to keep in the flock. When opened up, they had huge fat layers around the reproductive organs and their GI tract and heart were totally encased in fat to such a degree that you could not see the organs unless you dug through the fat. Their livers were just as you described...mealy, fragile, yellowed and fatty.

All the other birds processed that day were extremely large (13-15 lb) CX raised on FF and free range. If any bird is going to have a fatty liver it would be the CX..but not one of these birds had one, they didn't have excess fat around their organs, and all organs were healthy and free of signs of disease.

Every BO I've had has had this identical necropsy. Mine not so bad as other people's birds because I free ranged and only fed once a day but BOs that have continuous feeds in front of them have much more feed consumption. They often suffer egg bound issues due to large eggs and heavy fat layers obstructing their delivery. They suffer prolapse for the same reasons.

If your bird was not a BO, it could be just a bird that is overeating, being overfed, or is eating too high of proteins in the diet and this is something that could be adjusted to prevent further problems of this nature.

 

[Triple Willow]

Tried posting this on the Heritage thread, but didn't get any responses, so maybe somebody over here can help. I have a question about a chicken I just put in the fridge. One of our broody's was in bad shape when I went to feed this PM. Mouth full of slime, and extra runny poop. Wouldn't swallow when I put water in her mouth. When skinnin her, the crop was about 3/4's the size of my fist...pretty dang big. It also seemed very dry, not mushy at all. I feed fermented layer pellets only in the evening, but we were on vacation and the in-laws decided they need a little more food yesterday morning, and fed them straight wheat in the AM. The trough was still half full of wheat when I fed that evening. BTW, her crop was full of nothin but wheat. I think it was an impacted crop(if there is such a thing) that did her in, but what's also interesting was her innards. Everything had an extreme coating of yellow fat. You couldn't see any pink on the gizzard it was so thick. I never even saw the heart. The weirdest part was the liver. I could just poke it witha finger and my finger would go straight through. It was a meduim brown color, didn't look right at all. I've only butchered about 60 chickens and never seen anything like this, so I'm hoping someone may have a clue as to what was going on. Thanks,

Sorry about your hen. I'm not positive and maybe somebody else has seen more of this in older birds but I have seen a real soft beige colored liver in young birds. I imagine it is a fatty liver. I would say it probably was from the rest of the fat you describe in her. I have seen cirrhosis in chicken's liver and it is beige colored but HARD and swollen usually with little spots on it.

 

[Triple Willow]

Oops, didn't scroll down far enought to see you had already answered that Bee. lol

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

Thanks for the response. I was just worried because I thought I read that you want a sweet smell, not a rotten smell. I won't worry now. My up-and-coming layers love the ff.

 

[colburg]

Let me guess...was she a BO? Yes, it sounds like she died of an impacted crop. My chickens won't hardly eat wheat..even my meaties didn't want to eat it. It is very hard to digest as it has a very hard outer shell. Even softened and soaked in the fermentation it was their least favorite grain.

The liver was not a condition of eating FF, it was a condition of overeating or being overfed over a long period of time. If you don't overfeed, I'm thinking you have a bird that is overeating,more so than her peers. Increased eating, especially of high protein feeds, can cause a diseased, fatty liver and the increased storing of fats around the organs would seem to indicate that this is the cause and not necessarily what she was being fed, i.e. FF.

I was giving a processing demonstration this summer and someone brought two BOs over 2 yrs of age. Both had prolapses and were no longer laying enough to keep in the flock. When opened up, they had huge fat layers around the reproductive organs and their GI tract and heart were totally encased in fat to such a degree that you could not see the organs unless you dug through the fat. Their livers were just as you described...mealy, fragile, yellowed and fatty.

All the other birds processed that day were extremely large (13-15 lb) CX raised on FF and free range. If any bird is going to have a fatty liver it would be the CX..but not one of these birds had one, they didn't have excess fat around their organs, and all organs were healthy and free of signs of disease.

Every BO I've had has had this identical necropsy. Mine not so bad as other people's birds because I free ranged and only fed once a day but BOs that have continuous feeds in front of them have much more feed consumption. They often suffer egg bound issues due to large eggs and heavy fat layers obstructing their delivery. They suffer prolapse for the same reasons.

If your bird was not a BO, it could be just a bird that is overeating, being overfed, or is eating too high of proteins in the diet and this is something that could be adjusted to prevent further problems of this nature.

You're half right... She was a Black Austrolorp. My feed regimin is very similar to yours. Feeding 60 layers 2 gallons of FF late in the evening. There's never any left when they go to bed, they have to forage all day until I feed the next evening. Feed mix is 50/50 20%pellets/scratch with wheat.

All the other birds seemed to be doing just fine yesterday so I'm still not sure what was going on.

 

[Beekissed]

That 20% may be your problem. Layer is usually 16% and with the FF making all that protein available, I'm wondering if your birds aren't getting too much protein in their diet? Unusual for a BA to lay on that much fat but last year I butchered the fattest bird I've ever had and it was a BA..she had fat where most birds never have fat. She even had fat on the back of her neck!!!

At that time I was supplementing their feed with some small amounts of calf manna and I immediately took that away. The only reason I had done that was because they came to me so poorly and wretched, but the calf manna, even in very small amounts, was just too much protein. I had to stop it altogether and go back to simple layer and whole grains.

 

[colburg]

That's part of the reason why I only feed half pellets and half scratch. Should put total protein at 14-15%. Then ferment it. Do you think that's still too high? I can mix it 40/60, 30/70 if need be, but I figured it was ok.


Thanks Bee,

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Well, I swapped out my stainless steel metal sieve for a plastic colander and I'm just letting it sit in the FF soup. So for 13 CX chicks this is now my setup.
Gotta figure out a better feeder since the one I have was made to be an auto feeder with dry food in mind.



Like most of you I've seen a big improvement in the CX's waste from feeding FF. Nice, normal birdy poos instead of liquid and undigested feed. And what I'm feeding is Purina Sunfresh unmedicated Flock Raiser... So no meat. Purina doesn't make chicken feed with meat that I'm aware of.

 

[RedRidge]

Quote: We farm for a living... if each different species can't "at least" pay for itself and put food up for us, then we don't keep them.
Some barely break even financially, but at least provide us with their product, but some do make more than others.
Frankly, I sell enough eggs from my production layers to justify my "genetic diversification" with the other breeds - at least that sounds good to hubby.

I can't go in hole with any one type of livestock or they can't stay.... so forage conversion is a high priority here... for cattle, sheep, chickens... even bees.

 

[Beekissed]

That's part of the reason why I only feed half pellets and half scratch. Should put total protein at 14-15%. Then ferment it. Do you think that's still too high? I can mix it 40/60, 30/70 if need be, but I figured it was ok.


Thanks Bee,

I feed 16% and cut it with barley grain..not sure what protein it puts it at, but with the free range they get plenty of protein out on forage. What I feed is very minimal and just a supplement. I'm not sure what to tell you but it's clear your bird has some really high nutrition going on to put on that much fat...or she is just one of those birds that hog down at the feeder! That could be a possibility too and just an isolated incident.

I have a few that have a tendency to put on weight now they are old, so I am constantly adjusting what I feed to force them to walk more and forage more...just trying to make them stay healthy for as long as possible, but I've still got a couple on the roster for a fall culling due to old age and body changes. I think they are at the end of their good laying life and it's all trouble and old age symptoms from here on out. It should be interesting to see the condition of their organs when I process as they are very old, heavy breed birds.