Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[nab58]

Question about FF ingredients:

if I'm using a 16% protein layer pellet mixed with scratch for my FF, how do I determine the ratio of pellets to scratch?

My 6 RSLs are 20 weeks and just started laying (if that makes a difference).

Thanks!

 

[BlueMouse]

https://homesteadapps.com/app/free/feedcalc/pearsonsquare.php

that's a helpful calculator for protien. you plug in the protien of your feed (16% layer) and your "supplement" the scratch, and the finished protien level desired and it gives you the ratios. Very handy. It will depend on how much protien your scratch has in it. You probably don't want to drop your unfermented protien below 14% would be my guess. Hopefully someone more experienced will chime in for you!

 

[RedRidge]

Question about FF ingredients:

if I'm using a 16% protein layer pellet mixed with scratch for my FF, how do I determine the ratio of pellets to scratch?

My 6 RSLs are 20 weeks and just started laying (if that makes a difference).

Thanks!

What percentage protein is your scratch and do your birds free range at all (additional forage and animal protein)? Scratch is usually about 10%. If you free range some then mixing 3 parts layer to 1 part scratch would get you about 14.5% protein. Not enough protein if you don't free range but plenty if you do. That's just one example.

 

[Beekissed]

ok... I'm catching up after a long weekend with no time for the computer, and have a couple things. I would also think it would be very beneficial to have another article written on FF. I too subscribe to the KISS idea. I have three small children, and a half finished house, I don't have time for fussy and complicated. However, I think we should also realize that there are a lot of different ways to do this that work for different people's setups, and with the equipment that they have available. I think that is what makes this such a great environment for learning, is that there are so many people doing it different ways and so many of them working not just well but superbly. Red Ridge has a very specific system that is perfectly streamlined for her needs. Bee has a great system for her flock that requires minimal imput and gets the ferment gong super quickly. CostaRicaArt has a system of rotating buckets that's innovative, simple, and perfect for his needs. Kassundra ferments only whole grains in a giant trashcan! We can all learn from the ways people do things even if their system would be bulky and cumbersome for us. And it's not always bad to use additives. if you have ACV there's no reason NOT to glug it in at the beginning. sure, it'll work without it, but it may help the process along a bit. and if you have LAB handy (which I do since I use it in my coop, where my tractors have been, and in my garden) putting a glug in here and there can only help, since what you have growing in there is a SCOBY and mostly LAB at that. If you don't have LAB around, there is equally no need for despair, becuase many are perfectly sucessful without it. I don't think it's particularly helpful or kind to poo poo the way someone is doing something because it seems fussy or cumbersome to you. More helpful by far to share what is simple and works well for you and ask why they are using that particular system. just as always my .02. I love reading this thread and learning from everyone. Even if I don't agree with someone I can learn from the way they are doing things.

number two.... My FF is doing something I haven't seen before... It has little sort of fluffy spots of growth on it. Not the normal cyrstaline gray/white scummy covering. these are like tiny fluffy islands.

I stirred them in and they came back the next day. I'm not overly worried because they are black, and the whole thing doesn't smell foul. But I do wonder if my yeast/bacteria balance is getting off in there. I dumped in fresh grains, some more water, and a glug of LAB this morning when I fed out. I'm hoping that if this is a sign that my balance is starting to go out of whack that will give it what it needs to get back to more or less normal. I guess I'm going to just let my nose be my guide, the last thing I want to have happen is for this to go bad, since it's a 20 gallon crock and about 3/4 full. Any suggestions?

It's just the results of hot temps accelerating the growth of organisms, be they beneficial or not. I find stirring them into the mix eliminates the issue and I've not seen any ill results of it.

As to the kind or helpful remark..maybe not to you. But to someone who is learning this method for the first time, all the different preferences can be mind boggling as one claims theirs is best and makes claims about another method as being wrong. When one is teaching math, one does not jump right into getting a total of 4 through complicated formulas when teaching the new concept of math...one generally starts with addition, subtraction and works their way up to more complex versions of how to get a total of 4.

If the most simple method of teaching how to ferment feed is a simple add feed to water, stir and wait, then it's the most efficacious method for teaching a new person on the method. The plea for that level of simplicity is just that...a plea for the most simple method of all to be explained in an article about the process. If you aren't the one answering the questions on this method of feeding, you don't get to realize how confused most people become after reading about how the feed must be submersed at all times (FALSE) and that one has to add LABs(FALSE) to the mix to get good fermentation, or how one has to strain the mix before feeding (FALSE) in order to feed and so they then must worry about getting a way to strain it that isn't using metals that will corrode from the fermented feed, etc. They also express worry over how to grow LABs to add to the mix, complicated feed formulas so as to get the "best" fermentation, how to get glass or ceramic crocks or jars to ferment in when a plastic bucket is sufficient, etc.

All of these false claims cloud the issue of learning a very simple process and so many would just rather not bother if it's going to be that complicated...and then they miss out on a great thing for their flocks. It matters not to me how one eventually gets their fermented feeds to their liking, but it does matter to me how it is taught to those wanting the information.

You can call that unkind or unhelpful all you wish...but I think I've been nothing but kind and helpful to those wanting to learn about FF. If I want a basic, true method explained on the teaching of it,it is purely out of kindness and helpfulness to those who are learning.

I'm sorry if the nature of the free advice is not to your liking, but it is all I have available. They sell a dressed up, but not entirely accurate, version on other blog sites if you are interested in that type of thing.

 

[mlowen]

To quote Frank Herbert's Dune: "...displays a general garment and you claim it's cut to your fit?" I didn't read BlueMouse's post as an indictment of anyone. I agree articles describing the simplicity of setting up feed to ferment will be very helpful to newbies, but there are several simple methods out there and they each work pretty well.

 

[BlueMouse]

I'm into simple. I'm not into arguing. And I'm pretty sure I've said several times that I like this thread, and love learning from everyone on here. If I was only interested in back patting I would a) not have posted. b) go someplace else and spend my time reading somethingelse. I happen to think I have a lot I can learn here. I also happen think that on the internet it pays to be careful how we phrase things so as not to cause hurt and argument instead of offering help. You're right, everyone needs the basic recipe to start. When you learn to make bread you start with yeast, water, flour and salt. Once you've got that you've got the concept and you move onwards to more complicated recipes. Or, if that recipe works for you you stay right there. It's great to have the basic recipe. It's also great to be able to look at the "fancified" recipes and decide if they are more what you want, or useless to you. It would be awesome to have an article on the super simple method of fermenting your feed for superior flock health and nutrition. Hopefully someone will write such a thing and we can get it up on the teaching section of this site and then we can just link people there instead of reading the whole thread. Which is a little cumbersome at this point.

As a note on the need to cover feed with water.... I find when fermenting only whole grains that having the grains covered with water seems to help the process along. It doesn't seem to matter when I'm fermenting crumble or ground grains. Isn't that odd?

I find it odd that my ferment is acting shady now when the temperatures are unseasonably cool, instead of a month ago when it was 98 degrees out, but whatever. I'm not overly concerned since it isn't black and doesn't smell. I stirred it back in and it came back. Twice. Which is why I was thinking my balance might be getting off in the bucket. I'll keep and eye (and a nose, lol) on it.

 

[nab58]

What percentage protein is your scratch and do your birds free range at all (additional forage and animal protein)? Scratch is usually about 10%. If you free range some then mixing 3 parts layer to 1 part scratch would get you about 14.5% protein. Not enough protein if you don't free range but plenty if you do. That's just one example.

they free range about 1-2 hours a day. would the protein content increase if I add BOSS? I have a 25 lb bag and they're crazy for it.

Thanks for your help!!!!

 

[7acres]

I have been fermenting about a week now. It is going well. All ages seem to like it. My little chicks seem to go crazy over it. When I put it out they come running. I am using the one bucket method and was using a stick to stir it. I found out the perfect thing to use. I have a cheap forked hoe. The one that has two tines on one side and hoe blade on the other. It fits into the 5 gallon bucket perfectly. By plunging it up and down it works like a churn. You can put it on the bottom and turn it and it lifts any solid up so you mix it. Works really well when you add new stuff. They are several dollars most places, but mine it the cheap 2 or 3 dollar one you get at the places like a Dollar Store or other discount store. Sure beats a stick or paddle.

 

[Loghousemom]

Well, I have officially read every post here, and I do not remember reading anything about my following question so I apologize if I missed it.

What do you all do if you need to leave town? Do you have someone trained in FF to care for your birds? Do you switch back to bagged feed?

I am trying to plan ahead since I know I will be going out of state soon when my dad has surgery. He will be in the hospital for 10-15 days. I will probably only be gone for 4 or 5, but am worried as to what might happen with the FF and feeding the birds. I do have a couple of helpful friends who always watch my birds, and my inlaws are here, but they could not lift a 5 gallon bucket full of feed. :/.

I am sort of thinking of switching to fermenting on a larger scale where they can just scoop out of a huge trash can and that should be enough for a week.... And then still fill up my big barrel feeder with the unfermented grains as filler.

Anybody have systems for FF while out of town?

 

[Beekissed]

I treat it just like dry feed and dish out what they would normally eat per day x how many days I'll be gone. My feed trough will hold 4-5 days worth of feed, dry or wet. It doesn't change the feed any, whether it is sitting in a bucket for those days or if it's sitting in a feed trough for the same number of days. It tends to darken a little, much like it does on the top of the feed each night before one stirs it.

The chickens keep this top part picked off as they eat it, so it's no problem about it drying out. The feed is always cleaned up when I come back and the birds have had the same nutrition amounts as I would have fed if I had been here and fed it out each day.