Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Triple Willow]

Do any of you guys ever watch any of P. Allan Smith's programs? That guy does it all! He designs houses, designs beautiful lawns (that's "gardens" for fancy folks), cooks, has vegetable gardens and has livestock including heritage poultry. He has several chickens! I love watching his shows and learn something from him all the time. I was reading a few minutes ago and he is referred to as the Martha Stewart of the south. lol

Here Bee, P. Allan Smith and a hair sheep... lol (Why is one sheep not a shep?)

 

[Beekissed]

Anybody want to give me some pointers on getting my dog not to kill chickens? Mine is half Aussie (8 years old) so chasing is in his breeding. It seems to be going pretty good. I take him in the pen to feed and he acts really well. The problem is more while they are out free ranging. I guess he wants to herd them but it turns into chasing and they end up dead. He can't be trusted for a second if I'm not looking. He is a very smart dog but we can't seem to solve this problem. I don't want to but I think I may have to go with the shock collar.

yep I'd just keep him locked up when the chickens are out free ranging because this is IN his blood and don't think it will ever get out because of the breed.

I don't think it has so much to do with breed as in expectations. Jake is half border collie, half lab...half herder and half hunter, with a huge prey drive thriving and intact. He's a killer of songbirds and can snatch them right out of the air and he'll kill pretty much anything else he considered fair game. He was doing that as a pup before he ever met a chicken.

It takes a relationship between you and the dog that is one of respect for the pack leader and I don't mean sit, stay, shake hands kind of respect but the kind where he watches your face to see if he can anticipate your orders before you even give them. That is one that can be instilled best when they are young but can still be done on older dogs if you have the patience and the right attitude....remember, walk like you mean it, talk like you mean it and always follow through and dogs, livestock and even the kids will get out of your way or get mowed down. They have to know you will be immensely displeased if they do anything you don't want them to...whether you are at home or not at home. Immensely displeasing the pack leader is paramount to committing doggy suicide in a real pack. Can get ya killed.

When I trained Jake it was real easy to teach him what I wanted while I was there, because I had already done this ground work, but I had to teach him that I am always there, even when I am not there. So after the initial training of corrections when he showed any overt attention or excitement towards the chickens, I tied the legs of a few birds and left them lying in the yard and just walked away. I went in the house and watched from a window. He kept looking at the house, then he'd glance at the birds. The birds would give a flap or flop down the yard a little and he'd look at the house to see if I was watching..I kept quiet and just watched. Then the birds flapped again and he did the Border Collie sneak..head down, eyes focused, moving towards the birds. After the first few steps I screamed out the window, "MY CHICKENS!!!!!"...these are the words I used when I gave corrections in the initial phase. He jumped like he'd been stung, ducked his head and moved away quickly.

I waited. He watched the house, glanced at the birds, watched the house and I waited. Pretty soon the flapping birds were just too much to ignore, so he acted like he was merely walking to the other side of the yard...he wasn't even going to LOOK at those birds. Well, you and I both know that nonchalant saunter that can be casual one minute and white lightning the next when they want to attack something...so when he got level with those birds I screamed, "MY CHICKENS!!!!" and he again retreated like a scalded dog to his place of origin. The look on his face was priceless and I could hear him thinking, "How does she bloody DO that???"

After that, when he moved he kept his face turned away from the chickens and walked a very wide berth around them. Never bothered to be interested in chickens since then. Put the fear of God in them when they are young, keep them thinking you are the be all, end all and grand mack daddy of the territory. For older dogs who have lived with permissive owners, this could take a complete change of their minds and yours too...something has to change and it's usually the human.

 

[Beekissed]

Do any of you guys ever watch any of P. Allan Smith's programs? That guy does it all! He designs houses, designs beautiful lawns (that's "gardens" for fancy folks), cooks, has vegetable gardens and has livestock including heritage poultry. He has several chickens! I love watching his shows and learn something from him all the time. I was reading a few minutes ago and he is referred to as the Martha Stewart of the south. lol

Here Bee, P. Allan Smith and a hair sheep... lol (Why is one sheep not a shep?)

Sounds like an interesting guy! Can't be all bad if he's hugging a hair sheep...or..um..a shep.

 

[Triple Willow]

@Bee... He minds really well about everything except chickens. In the past sometimes I would have something laying outside and I be dang if he wouldn't have to get it and take it off somewhere in the yard. One time I had one of those wireless thermometer thingies I had put in a pot of geraniums, I thought hid from him and didn't think he could find because of the stink of the geraniums. Don't you know he snuck around there and found it and took it (always when I'm not around). I found it out in the yard covered in leaves months later! NOW if I have something outside that I don't want him bothering I call him over, look at it, give him my serious look and say in a calm but slightly stern voice, "Don't bother that. Leave it alone and I mean it." When I do that he never bothers what I tell him not to - except chickens! This morning he was calm as could be around the chickens so I decided to pick one up so it would have a fit and he would react. It squalked and the other chickens jumped back and he jumped to his feet ready to pounce. I said something to him and told him to calm down and he did then I called him over and let him sniff the bird real good. I put the bird down and he was fine. I don't know what I'm doing but I hope we can work through this thing! He is a great dog and if I could clone him I would - minus the love of killing chickens. lol

 

[Beekissed]

Must be a collie thing...Jake was like that with my garden. I'd plant potatoes and be waiting for them to come up..and waiting...and waiting...then find all of them in a pile in the corner of the yard under a stack of lumber. Or I'd be waiting to pick that first ripe tomato and find it missing...then later on look out the window and see Jake walking out of the garden with a tomato in his mouth.

I didn't really think to train him on the garden like I did on chickens but it would have been the thing to do..just never thought about it. He was an egg thief also but now he won't touch them until I say he can. I can leave eggs out in the yard all day and he won't even look at them anymore, but if I tell him to go ahead he'll grab them and go.

As he gets older he gets even more responsive to my moods and wishes, so he's an easy dog to train..he's very food motivated and also doesn't like to displease me. And I've never shouted at or struck this dog...well..besides screaming out the window about chickens.

 

[Triple Willow]

Wow that took a nasty turn for the freeloaders lol.... My dogs hhmmmm..... the yorkie poo just wants to sniff butt, the shih-tzu well he's giving them a wide berth. Glad I got wimps lol. Some dogs will just chase anything that runs away, had a border collie mix and he and a neighbors yellow lab decided it would be fun to terrorize  some sheep, well they ran and the dogs tryed to stop them, apparently too rough, Me and the neighbor split the price of that sheep (never did get any meat). Both dogs never got broke of that they had to be penned.

Walt

That's my dog, anything that will run - YEEHAW!!! lol He's 8 years old and neutered but acts like a pup a lot of the time. But he is a sweetheart. Most of his commands involve moving out of my way because he is ALWAYS right on me. He would SERIOUSLY be a lap dog with his 50 lb butt if I would let him. LOL He watches me like a hawk and if I even lean forward like I am even going to get up he hops to his feet ready to see where "we" are going. (I torment him with that sometimes. hehe) This morning I was leaving the chicken pen and turned to see where he was to tell him to come out too and didn't see him. As usual he was right behind me while I was looking for him. lol

 

[Triple Willow]

@Kassaundra... I am lacking in the patience department.

 

[Triple Willow]

Must be a collie thing...Jake was like that with my garden.  I'd plant potatoes and be waiting for them to come up..and waiting...and waiting...then find all of them in a pile in the corner of the yard under a stack of lumber.  Or I'd be waiting to pick that first ripe tomato and find it missing...then later on look out the window and see Jake walking out of the garden with a tomato in his mouth. 

I didn't really think to train him on the garden like I did on chickens but it would have been the thing to do..just never thought about it.  He was an egg thief also but now he won't touch them until I say he can. I can leave eggs out in the yard all day and he won't even look at them anymore, but if I tell him to go ahead he'll grab them and go. 

As he gets older he gets even more responsive to my moods and wishes, so he's an easy dog to train..he's very food motivated and also doesn't like to displease me.  And I've never shouted at or struck this dog...well..besides screaming out the window about chickens.  

Yep, I really believe herding dogs are the smartest dogs there are, but all that smarts can be a problem. lol

 

[Triple Willow]

yep I'd just keep him locked up when the chickens are out free ranging because this is IN his blood and don't think it will ever get out because of the breed. 

I'm hoping there is hope for him. He's smart enough and obedient enough to "get it" ...IF... I was just smart enough to get it across to him. Ahhhhhh...big sigh.

 

[Beekissed]

That's my dog, anything that will run - YEEHAW!!! lol He's 8 years old and neutered but acts like a pup a lot of the time. But he is a sweetheart. Most of his commands involve moving out of my way because he is ALWAYS right on me. He would SERIOUSLY be a lap dog with his 50 lb butt if I would let him. LOL He watches me like a hawk and if I even lean forward like I am even going to get up he hops to his feet ready to see where "we" are going. (I torment him with that sometimes. hehe) This morning I was leaving the chicken pen and turned to see where he was to tell him to come out too and didn't see him. As usual he was right behind me while I was looking for him. lol

I think your dog and mine are long lost brothers. Jake is 7 this year and bounces around like a pup every time I approach..thinks he's going somewhere. And he always wants to be right on me too...will spin his body against my leg until I have to tell him to go sit down. Then he does it with a poor attitude and the last word, that sounds very much like a teenager muttering under their breath when they are mouthing you. Lots of grunts, sighs and groans when he has to do something he doesn't want to do...like being detached from my hip.

Jake has his own language and talks more than any dog I've known except that pretty husky on YouTube. He's very expressive and it's almost like he's getting the language we humans speak but hasn't quite gotten down just yet.

He and the Ol' Bat argue when they take their daily walks because she stops to pick up sticks out of the road and yard and he tries to get her to get a move on with grunts and groans. She finally tells him to go on home if he doesn't like it..and he does. They are quite a pair to listen to when they really get to arguing.