Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[kaisabaijai]

How long (days) did you leave that door closed?

I can't really leave the door closed for days because all of the chickens sleep there at night and the nesting boxes are in there. I suppose when I get a little more money I could build smaller enclosures out in the fields for the free rangers with nesting boxes so they would have a place to lay eggs and sleep at night. Then maybe these lazy chickens would stay out in the grass after they eat the food I throw out.


Perhaps when they've been camping out by the door for a couple hours, you could go out and throw some scratch in the grass to get them going.

That is what i was trying to do by putting the feed out in the grass in the morning and evening but after they eat what is easily grabbed they run back for the coop while the other chickens stay out and scratch for hours.

Are they a different breed from the ones that free range? The ones I am referring to are all Warrens that I bought as pullets at 20 weeks of age. I have other chickens that all free range but I hatched them myself. In other words they have never been locked in a cage like the Warrens had the first 5 months of their lives. When I first got the Warrens none of them would come out of the coop the first day. Used layer pellets and corn to lure them out into the grass. After two months of doing this twice a day i have a little over 100 that will free range and these 50 or so that will follow me out to grab the easy stuff then run back to the coop. They will only stay out as long I am out there throwing feed around. They will also stay pretty close to me instead of scratching though the grass to grab the corn or pellets that I threw in the grass.As soon as I throw a handful out they run and grab what is easily seen then run to the next handful i throw. Within minutes after i run out of feed to throw they run back to the coop. i even tried sitting out with the chickens while they ate to see if they would stay. They do stay longer that way but as soon as they figure out I am not going to throw any more food they run back to the coop.

The more i think about it the more I think I may try the smaller coops even though it will be more work for me watering them and collecting eggs.

If you do cull them, make sure they have enough weight on them that you can put them in your freezer. If you just toss 'em, that would be a big waste.

Yeah I would never just toss them. I started with 190 of them and the ones that have died for one reason or another have gotten chopped, cooked and fed to the other chickens.

 

[yinepu]

Quote:
hey now... I resemble that remark....

 

[Kilsharion]

Hello.. all .. I'm just starting on the 3 rd month.. of FF. I started off small.. so that i could train my dog so i have a very small flock of 2 Jersey Giants My 2 roosters.. now 5&6 mo old, began FF in January ( i got the breading stock before the hens.. who are coming in 2 wks) My experience was that the first day.. they were not sure.. of the FF compared to the crumbles. The Crumbles was the feed they were familiar with. By Day 2.. they were eating like linebackers in fall training camp , 2 and some times 3x/ day. I was trying to make friends.. ; ) This kept up for over a month.. and then suddenly.. they were eating a lot less - so much that I got worried that i had let a batch go bad < since I'm new to FF for chickens.. so I made a new batch from the beginning> While fermenting the #2 batch, i would leave a dry feed out.. along with the FF - to see if they would eat that.. They did peck at the dry .. but they still preferred the FF. I was not taking measurements but it was a noticeable difference. I had read this might happen. Maybe they go thru growth spurts.. ?? when the demand for growth is higher that other times ( little humans do.. maybe the heritage chickens do too.) I'm now doing the 2 set's of bucket soak. (like Ashdoes) . with plenty of liquid to cover the feed -- then to let the feed soak for at least 3 days - maybe less when summer comes. Then using the filtered water to start the new batch to soak. It seems there are some difference of opinion.. on what method is best regarding time to soak / ferment .. and how much water to use.. to cover or not to cover ( its a good discussion to have.. I especially like when i can see the reasons why.. someone chooses one method over another ) If you decide to explain which method you like ... would you mind saying.. I choose this method .... because.... it ....________ does this that .. and .... the other.. For my self I chose the longer ferment time. Because it was closer to what i use to ferment cabbage. When i let the feed get above the water line i had some fuzzy growth. I think this is why some folks recommend keeping plenty of water on the feed to keep the mold from forming.. . It appears that for those folks doing fewer hours in their soak that they are feeding before any mold can form.. so keeping it submerged is not as important for that method. I can imagine that its easier with such a small # of chicken to keep 2 batches going. but that's what I'll try when the other 20 chicks get here. I have been using fermented foods for my self for over 15 years.. it just seemed like a great thing to do for the chickens too. I'm glad that there are so many folks sharing their methods for making this kind of feed work. and helping those of us who want to make FF work find a way. For me its not just the Lowest Cost on feed.. I too noticed an improvement in the stool's and smell - tho they do still have an occasional watery stool. I'm sure I'll keep watching over the next few months.. to keep learning. Thanks .. for sharing your idea's. Debra..

Debra, I posted a graph a few pages back that show when alcohol starts to kick into gear - that's after the 48 hour period. I did not see if you were adding ACV or not. If not, you may want to monitor alcohol content because you have a great set up for a real hooch. You can buy a refractometer for less than $30 that will help you keep an eye on potential alcohol levels. However, if you are adding vinegar to your mix as is strongly suggested on the forum, you will have no alcohol issues no matter how long you let it sit. The difference here between cabbage and fermented human foods is that the grains involved are losing about 77% of their sugars which are being converted to alcohol by the yeasts...when doing open fermentation - which I do - you will have wild yeast colonies deciding to populate. I've not seen anyone on here doing sealed fermentation; though, several do cover with a towel or some such. Even so, yeasts will find their way in to such a feast and fermentation is on....in this case, it is more of a fermentation you would associate with beer than with cabbage or milk. The grains and seeds lend themselves to that type of fermentation. It's one reason why the vinegar is a good addition. Some have had problems not getting a real fermentation going and there are potentially a few reasons for that - one of which being too much vinegar in their startup. If you've been fermenting for a while, you know that vinegar overwhelms alcohol easily. That's exactly what we want. If you go through the photos that have been posted in the forum, you will see that several on here have had mold growing on the top of their hooch even after just a 24 to 48 hour cycle. They are getting a true fermentation, not a soak. Yinepu, I know for a fact, has a true fermentation going even though she runs more dry, with not water insulator. Me, I have a water insulator that sits there and snap, crackle and pops at me every time I walk by - and, nearly dances at me when I stir. If I didn't have the vinegar in there, I'm fairly certain I'd have a pretty nice hooch going. But, just a couple of tablespoons of ACV and - bloop - no more alcohol. Really interesting to see the change introducing vinegar to a hooch brings about. I prefer to leave my FF uncovered to encourage wild yeasts - it keeps my fermentation going very strong and I want that. I keep a water insulator, unlike others, because of the fact that I'm going for a more beer like fermentation. It's how I'm used to fermenting, so it's more comfortable for me. I also like it more wet because I add additional things to the feed to supplement - such as goats milk kefir ((Yinepu, it wasn't dead!! yay!!!)) and mealworms, etc - and then balance out with dried mash mixed in to give me a drier consistency. Anyway, I hope I answered your question for why and how....I ramble a lot...sorry about that Overall, it sounds like you are doing a wonderful job and keep it up! Everyone here has their own way of doing it; and, rarely have I ever heard anyone say, "That's so WRONG! NOOOOO!!"

 

[bbsnooks]

Thanks.. I saw those charts... very nice..


-- and i do use the unfiltered ACV. and am fixing to make 2 different home brew's.. of acv
one with apple juice and mother.. / another with a box wine that i didnt particularly like.. any words of wisdom on those.. I seem to have been procrastinating.. i have the jars clean.. and ready and some Bragg's to start it with.. and .. I'm Juicing.. and will have apple pulp to use.. I thought i'd make 2-4 batches in case some thing went wrong.. at least one might make it.

I do have another ?? about the IMO Lactic acid farming video that some one posted from You tube..
it looks really good..

my problems is .. trouble getting band-with for you-tube.. and i cant get past 8 minutes
--- Does any one have a written how to list .. / link / pdf that has the directions for that. i tried a google search and found a link from acresusa but it didnt have directions.
thanks..

I just started a meal worm colony.. for treats.. ( apparently i have a lot of time to think about chickens.. ) I doubt there will be enough for a little while.. by next winter maybe enough to suppliment FF.

 

[aoxa]

I see. thanks.

Mash is this:


The picture shown is :

Starter, crumble (grower or layer) and than pellets. Mash is whole grains.

 

[Toast n Jelly]

Quote:
Here's a couple of pics of my layer feed contains vits, minerals, calcium and protein (the usual for a layer feed). I've never seen this kind before and only get it from neighbor who orders for me with his. I love to ferment this as it stays nice and thick and lots of individual stuff in there.
So is this called mash.(no-one seems to know here they just call it by the prod.code) ?

Sorry pics woudn't load for me but I'll keep trying. Okay pics with and without flash.

 

[aoxa]

Here's a couple of pics of my layer feed contains vits, minerals, calcium and protein (the usual for a layer feed). I've never seen this kind before and only get it from neighbor who orders for me with his. I love to ferment this as it stays nice and thick and lots of individual stuff in there.
So is this called mash.(no-one seems to know here they just call it by the prod.code) ?

We can not get mash in any other way but layer, so I don't get it. If only they had it without the additional calcium, I'd feel better about feeding it to my birds. Whole foods make more sense to me.

I may just formulate my own feed once the barn is rebuilt.

 

[Toast n Jelly]

Quote: Finally able to post pics in my post above....
Yes that's it.... just layer but I like it cause it ferments beautifully.

Would you try this layer mixed with grower...(can't get flock raiser) for less calcium?

 

[yinepu]

Quote:
Around here that is called "scratch"

So I think in different parts of the country they call different things "mash"


The argument as to what exactly "mash" is has been going around for a while...
for example:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/134622/what-is-chicken-mash-and-its-purpose

when I was growing up we didn't have Layer "crumbles" or "pellets" where I lived.. (but probably available elsewhere)
In our town you could get "scratch" which was mixed whole grains with bits of broken grain added
"whole grain" was just as it states.. but only one type of grain per bag depending on what you asked for (corn, oats and so on)
Layer "Mash" was a powdered feed with calcium added

or you could get "chick grower" which was a "crumble" (not as powdery as the mash).. we didn't have a separate "starter" feed

 

[Toast n Jelly]

Quote:
Around here that is called "scratch"

So I think in different parts of the country they call different things "mash"


The argument as to what exactly "mash" is has been going around for a while...
for example:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/134622/what-is-chicken-mash-and-its-purpose

when I was growing up we didn't have Layer "crumbles" or "pellets" where I lived.. (but probably available elsewhere)
In our town you could get "scratch" which was mixed whole grains with bits of broken grain added
"whole grain" was just as it states.. but only one type of grain per bag depending on what you asked for (corn, oats and so on)
Layer "Mash" was a powdered feed with calcium added

or you could get "chick grower" which was a "crumble" (not as powdery as the mash).. we didn't have a separate "starter" feed

I've ordered scratch and got what you describe but this is not the same at all. There's a lot more in it if you read my post above.