Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[RedRidge]

Once there is a coccidiosis outbreak at a location (farm/yard), what is the future of raising chickens there? Should new birds never be added to the flock that survived coccidiosis? Should new birds never even be brought to the location? Should the whole flock be destroyed then after a time start all over? Could new birds be added to the existing flock and treated for coccidiosis should they develope it like the original birds did? There is a lot to consider.

Cocci are inescapable...it's everywhere in the soils of nearly all farms and some type of it is in the bowels of all mammals.  It's the level of immunities to it that your livestock have and their living conditions that will enable them to avoid over growths of it in their bodies.  Animals kept in pens/runs/paddocks that never give them a chance to be on clean soils are the most susceptible to it,as they are living and eating on soils that carry a heavy fecal load.  A heavy fecal load that also carries a heavy cocci or parasite load is just perpetuating and aiding the growth cycle of such things.

You can bet that any flock of chickens carry an acceptable load of cocci in their bodies at all times and thrive well with it...they mostly live and die with cocci in their bowels without you ever knowing it.  Same with e.coli, salmonella, etc.  These bacteria only begin to affect the animal and the environment when they are subjected to conditions that promote an increase in their numbers and they grow unchecked. 

Yes, you can introduce new birds to your flock and their particular pathogens if you do it in such a manner that gives the new birds a small dose so that they can form antibodies against these bacteria.  For young chicks, brooding them with some bedding from the large coop mixed into their bedding or even placing a scoop of the run soils in the brooder will give them exposure to these bacteria in small numbers...just enough for them to form antibodies against them. 

No, do not destroy your flock...if they survived a cocci infection on their own, they have formed antibodies and the right husbandry can help avoid the conditions of such an overgrowth from happening again.  If they survived with the help of meds, then they are back at square one...you can still plan for prevention of cocci outbreaks but you won't ever know if your birds have developed a good enough immune system to survive even a mild overgrowth of the bacteria. 

This is why I promote natural husbandry and judicious culling over the use of meds...if you give meds, you may always have to give meds.  If you don't ever give meds, it's likely you will never have to give meds.  I've never given meds.  I've also never had a cocci outbreak in any of my flocks. 

You really can't "treat" for coccidiosis as many are finding out this year who have fed medicated feeds or gotten the vaccine and still had quite a few birds die...but you can prepare for the fact of cocci in your animals and prevent any overgrowth in their bodies and coop/soil environment from happening with just good common sense. 

Proper us of deep or built up litter in the coop can decrease the cocci load in the coop environment and can do the same for the run if people only knew. I advise everyone to really read up on how to maintain good deep litter in their coops and runs if this is the only place their birds have of being.

There is information out there if one wants to do the work and study on these topics...but avoid information given from those whose target audience is commercial growers.  They do not know the best way to manage chickens and never will.  Hence our horrible food systems where many millions of birds die daily to illness and poor husbandry in the name of profit. 

This is a great post by Beekissed that everyone should read. While there are several practices on this thread that I don't agree with or that may worry me, this is one of the wisest posts. Beekissed and i have some management practices that differ but thats what makes the world go round. Everyone please read her post!

I have had chickens for years and years. In the last 15 years I have moved to 2 different farms where other people's chickens had lived for years prior to mine. I have never had to treat for coccidiosis, mites, or any of the other problems I read about. I expanded my flock a lot this year bringing in more than 60 chicks and young birds from 5 different places. I have yet to loose one chick who was older than a day. None of the newbies (whether hatched eggs from other places or chicks) have ever had medicated feed. They have never had meds of any kind. Unlike many folks, I don't even add ACV to their water. This isn't bragging.. It simply is what it is. We have had record rain fall for months and months. I have worried about potential parasites because of this with all my livestock. My sheep have not been dewormed in 3 years and look great!
Listen to what Beekissed said. Its all about balance and management practices.
I have 12x14 "stalls" where the chickens sleep at night and a raised brooder for those who are 5 weeks and under. They free range during the day after 5 weeks of age except for 90 days over the winter when they are all confined. My "stalls" are dirt floored where I toss in several flakes of straw or old hay once every few months. Within a week the straw is broken down... The floors appear to be just "dirt". But they are really a combination of dirt, broken down straw and fecal matter - very dry and powdery and very deep. It gets too deep about once every two to three years so I scoop it out and add a few flakes of straw or old hay and start all over. Once every 2-3 years!
I top of water when its low... I only empty and refill about once a week. Yes, it's 90% humidity and going to be 100 degrees here today. I have better things to do than refresh water, build "misters", etc.
All these pampered things do not create an environment conducive to building immunities. Provide non-medicated (preferably home grown, ground, mixed and fermented feed), water, and dry bedding. Make sure your ration is properly balanced - many are not.
Seriously... Some of the things I read on here simply wear me out. I don't have time to micro manage and treat. Don't wear yourselves out.
It isn't complicated so don't make it more complicated than it has to be.

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

Perhaps the answer to my question lies somewhere in the hundreds of posts on this thread; however, I'll ask first instead of searching for something that may not be there.

I have yet to start fermenting my own feed but and very insterested in doing so and from what I've read it seems fairly straight forward; ensure I've added enough water to my feed and let the fermentation begin ! Seems pretty straight foward My question is; I have 13 laying hens and I'm wodnering how much of the FF I should be feeding them each day ? Would I feed all they can eat or feed a certain amount once per day and then feed just regular dry feed for the remainder of the day ?

I'm new to the FF so any help is appreciated !

Thanks !

 

[Beekissed]

Feed only the FF and feed only what they can clean up in 15-30 min. If you normally feed continuous dry feed and your birds are confined to a coop and run, then feed this amount twice a day. If you free range all the time, feed once in the evenings and enough that they have just a tad left over for breakfast but not a lot. This will encourage better foraging and will give them a full stomach when they go off to bed...saves you money and gives them a better form of nutrition than the feed for most of the day, then the feed acts as a supplemental nutrition.

 

[Demosthine]

Feed only the FF and feed only what they can clean up in 15-30 min. If you normally feed continuous dry feed and your birds are confined to a coop and run, then feed this amount twice a day. If you free range all the time, feed once in the evenings and enough that they have just a tad left over for breakfast but not a lot. This will encourage better foraging and will give them a full stomach when they go off to bed...saves you money and gives them a better form of nutrition than the feed for most of the day, then the feed acts as a supplemental nutrition.

You beat me to it. Great answer and that's exactly what I do.

In terms of how much fermented feed, I find that mine eat about four or five cups of fermented feed, which equates to roughly two cups of dry feed depending on how much yours swells. I have 15 chickens and three turkeys that eat of this amount (although I think I need to increase it with ever-growing turkeys devouring more!), but they get daily scraps of whatever leftover food we have or fruits and vegetables that are going soft. Mine free range for about twelve hours before they get their fermented feed.

Warning, though, they will start following you around and always be at your feet waiting for more of the fermented feed. This isn't because they're hungry. Mine can have a full bowl of the fermented feed, plenty of scraps out there and they still attack my feeding dish like they think that this "new" batch is better than what they were just feeding from. I tried tossing a handful of crumbles over to one part of the yard as a distraction. Nope! They turned their nose up at it and laughed at me. They know where the real stuff is.

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

Feed only the FF and feed only what they can clean up in 15-30 min. If you normally feed continuous dry feed and your birds are confined to a coop and run, then feed this amount twice a day. If you free range all the time, feed once in the evenings and enough that they have just a tad left over for breakfast but not a lot. This will encourage better foraging and will give them a full stomach when they go off to bed...saves you money and gives them a better form of nutrition than the feed for most of the day, then the feed acts as a supplemental nutrition.

Hi Beekissed ! Long time no chat... thanks again for the info !

Right now the 13 chickens are confined to a coop/run so therefore you're saying I should feed them whatever they can eat of the FF in 15-30 mins twice per day and no other feed whatsoever for the day, correct ?

 

[Beekissed]

Yes!!! Then make adjustments from there according to their general condition and appearance. Every flock is different and every season brings new nutritional needs.

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

Yes!!! Then make adjustments from there according to their general condition and appearance. Every flock is different and every season brings new nutritional needs.

I am planning to let them free range real soon and when I do I will do as you said and cut them back to once per day of whatever they can eat of the FF in 15-30 mins.

Also, you said each season has its own nutritional needs; do you feed your flock FF all year using the same feed type or do you ferment a different feed according to the season ?

 

[Beekissed]

I change my mix ratio according to the seasons and their current nutritional needs and all of it is fermented. I don't change it much, just cut the protein consumption in the winter months by adding lower nutrient whole grains as needed.

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

I change my mix ratio according to the seasons and their current nutritional needs and all of it is fermented. I don't change it much, just cut the protein consumption in the winter months by adding lower nutrient whole grains as needed.

Thank you for the info !! I'm going to get started on fermenting tonight

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

I change my mix ratio according to the seasons and their current nutritional needs and all of it is fermented. I don't change it much, just cut the protein consumption in the winter months by adding lower nutrient whole grains as needed.

One more thing I forgot to ask, what is the ratio of dry feed to FF ? Is there anyway to figure this out ? If I have 2 cups of dry feed, what would that equal in FF ?