Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Beekissed]

I know this was posted months ago and I haven't even come close to the 625th page yet, but..... do chickens process seeds thru their gut like cows do? Is it broken up and truely digested or will it still pass whole in their stools? I'd be fearful of the thistle seeds that are so prevalent in the wild bird seed feed. I've been extra cautious about not throwing out to my hens the blackberry pulp (w/ seeds) just because it's such an invasive weed here in PNW.

Most larger seeds will be ground by the gizzard but I've seen smaller seeds such as flax seen come out in the stool. Smaller, harder seeds could indeed escape grinding and digestion and be expelled to live another day.

 

[Lacy Blues]

They are really enjoying shuffling that stuff around Bee. To be honest with you I still need to get another wagon load of it and put some wood chips in it. I have been so busy with everything else that I haven't had the time to finish it plus it is mega hot here now to. Had been raining every day as well up until the past couple days. I've been trying to get them something made to roost on. They are fighting over the roost I have and most all of them are wanting to roost on the top roosting board and there's just no way! It's not but about 8 foot long and only 1x3 board. Needless to say it's swaying. lol We did put two 1x3 boards together to make it thicker but it's still not enough. So I have the 2x4's cut out laying on the carport now to fix them something tomorrow. I THOUGHT the poop hammock would be perfect but it is always yucky nasty and stinks and draws flies to.I did the poop hammock because I have a ruptured disk in my lower back so I thought that would make it easier on me not having to bend cleaning up their pen etc. I've been taking down the hammock about every 4-5 days and hosing it off on the clothes line with soap and the water hose. TOO MUCH WORK and plus it freaks them out when I take that big honking thing back to their pen to put it back up. They almost kill each other running over each other when they see me coming with the thing. lol

By the way, I made me a lady today like yours so hawks will think someone is out there. ;-) I drove me some PVC pipes into the ground in several places so I can move her around the yard. I found this huge tall angel stuffed doll at the thrift store (.50) and as soon as I saw her I thought, there she is! I had planned on trying to make one but thought this is perfect I wont have to make it! I named her Big Bertha and will get a pic of her to show you. lol I even put her on a straw hat they had there as well. Mrs. Linda just gave me the straw hat for her when I told her what I was going to do with her. She was rolling laughing.

ALSO I have been busy recycling some 2x4's for the grazing frames as well. We closed in our front porch a couple years back for me a sewing room. They threw the banisters into the trash pile they had going out there doing the close in and I got them out. ;-) I KNEW they'd come in handy for something!!!! I LOVE recycling stuff! Going to put me up a porch swing out there close to the chicks pen and am going to use the 2x2's that were in the banisters for a pergola like thing for the roof of the swing frame. I even have some tin on hand as well..........

Anyway been taking all that apart and pulling nails from it all as well so do all that with. Wanted to use the large 2 bys for the grazing frames for the run. The area was pretty grown up back there where their pen was so I have been cleaning all that out in my free time as well. Trying to get it less snakey.

The DLM is still on my mind and am going to finish that!!! They love what is in there for them in fact the other day I was out there in the pen doing something and I saw one running across the run at a mad pace. It was after a bug so the bugs have already found it. lol I am thinking about putting my grazing boxes on the sides of the run on the inside and this way that will also help IF something tries to dig into their run, they wont be able to get in there by digging. I leave them in it during the day and when we leave I don't want something to be able to dig into the pen. I have plans on putting down poultry wire all around on the ground around it but having to do all of this a little at a time. Also need to see just where to place each one of the grazing frames. I have a pile of 2 bys from those banisters so looks like I may be able to make at least 4 of them.

I sure do appreciate all your ideas for my chicks pen and for my chicks to. They are some mega happy chicks!!

I was going to suggest poop boards instead of a poop hammock here but then Bee posted about the deep litter method.

THAT'S a GOOD idea! Thanx! and I have some plain yogurt already to! I just bought it for myself but will give it to them instead. I don't use the sugared kind anyway. I'll put the whole thing in there in the morning in their food. I was wondering HOW they could have that anyway with me feeding them the ff because it's suppose to build their immune system and their gut etc....... But no way this could hurt them, only help IF something is up with their little guts. I sure didn't want to do any medicines but after reading last night on bloody poops I was a little concerned. PLUS I was also thinking they were past the age of where it was a danger and they are still on the stupid medicated chick starter to. Only kind I could get without getting purina and I don't like buying purina period! Next week I plan on getting them started on laying mash. Do I need to mix anything with the laying mash? Don't know how high the protein is on the laying mash.
Thank you Lacy Blues!

Any time.

I have found I have a problem with the DLS inside the dirt floor coops. When it rains the litter around the edges gets wet then it wicks inward. Also the Scorpions have set up shop and the ones that stay behind the nest boxes come out at night (which since I work nights I do a lot of chores at night on my days off.)the chickens don't seem to care at night. They wont go after the centipedes at all, day or night.

Maybe you could sprinkle some D.E. behind your nest boxes? We have scorpions here too but I haven't seen any in my coop... but then, once its dark, I don't generally go in there.

lol yeah I thought about that and even had said something to hubby about it and he liked to had a cow. lol The reason he liked to have had a cow was........he used a wire mesh thing to strain out the large rocks from the sand he bought to put down in the roosting area. It pretty large in there and he strained large rocks out for ours. You should have seen the look I got from him when I said something about dong DL in there. lol Also he had to use the wheel barrow to get it in there because of how the chicken pen is. He couldn't just back the truck up and shovel it in the door. Shovel it into the sieve and then into the wheel barrow and then into the pen. no wooden floor in there and is open on all sides but 2 and one of those sides is partically open and that's on the west. I plan on putting up some bisqueen plastic over that area for the winter time. The north side is closed in with tin. So anyway that's the reason I haven't done the DL in the roosting area. lol
OK will do, check the labels Rose!

Should be 17-18% protein right? My feed store loves me....lol I'm always filling them with questions and the cashier doesn't know the answers to my questions so I have to go inside the area they keep the feed to talk with the guy that loads the feed.

Maybe those rocks and such could be transplanted to outside your runs to cover up the wire you plan to put down. That would save you the trouble of burying the wire.

I know this was posted months ago and I haven't even come close to the 625th page yet, but..... do chickens process seeds thru their gut like cows do? Is it broken up and truely digested or will it still pass whole in their stools? I'd be fearful of the thistle seeds that are so prevalent in the wild bird seed feed. I've been extra cautious about not throwing out to my hens the blackberry pulp (w/ seeds) just because it's such an invasive weed here in PNW.

You know what? If your birds are in a run and they don't get to free range (like my situation) I'd go ahead and give them the pulp with small seeds. Nothing green within my birds' reach survives. I'm pretty sure if it starts to grow in their run, it won't get very big.

 

[RoseMarie1]

LOL...you could place deep litter right on top of that sand! Tell hubby we all make adjustments as we go along to better the methods of husbandry....even after we have done back breaking work to do it the wrong way in the first place. There is nothing done that cannot be undone in that regard. Sometimes ya just have to let that "but I worked so hard!" go and move along.

It's a choice between flies, stench, digestion of feces and repetitive work to keep the feces cleaned up....or simple deep litter that merely needs added to now and again, no flies, no smells, healthier coop environment, etc.

A person can do it wrong for many years(speaking of myself, here!) and not accomplish as much as doing it right in one season of flock life.

I have found this to be true.....

oh yeah I agree with ya totally am always on the look out for a better way or a solution to a problem I have, but hubby not that way. lol I guess I just need to let him scoop the poop for a month or so and then he will see.

 

[RoseMarie1]

I was going to suggest poop boards instead of a poop hammock here but then Bee posted about the deep litter method.
Any time.
Maybe you could sprinkle some D.E. behind your nest boxes? We have scorpions here too but I haven't seen any in my coop... but then, once its dark, I don't generally go in there.
Maybe those rocks and such could be transplanted to outside your runs to cover up the wire you plan to put down. That would save you the trouble of burying the wire.
You know what? If your birds are in a run and they don't get to free range (like my situation) I'd go ahead and give them the pulp with small seeds. Nothing green within my birds' reach survives. I'm pretty sure if it starts to grow in their run, it won't get very big.

I went out there before lunch time and gave them the yogurt and some of their food. They gobbled it up so this evening I added some more fermented food to their trough. I didn't add the amount to it this morning that I usually do because I wanted them to get the full extent of the yogurt. I was raining most all day today until late this evening so I let them out to free range a little this evening. They LOVE that and I picked the tomatoes while they free ranged and I threw them bad tomatoes over the fence I have around my mators to keep them out. They love food period so here they went after the tomatoes. One of the roos grabbed one large one and hauled tail with it. He didn't want to share it.

 

[RoseMarie1]

I have found I have a problem with the DLS inside the dirt floor coops. When it rains the litter around the edges gets wet then it wicks inward. Also the Scorpions have set up shop and the ones that stay behind the nest boxes come out at night (which since I work nights I do a lot of chores at night on my days off.)the chickens don't seem to care at night. They wont go after the centipedes at all, day or night.

yeah just today it was soaking wet in front of their door on the sand and all the way down one side of their pen. I got the rake and tried to rake it well so it would dry out and not be in a deep pile wet........ I plan on doing a canopy on that side to keep it dry though but haven't figured out anything for the door yet.

 

[AletaG]

Anyone else here smell the scent of engineer? Proud engineer? Justifiably, I just made my husband read the post, but still. Sheesh.

Here in Costa Rica we get over 100" of rain during the 6 months of the rainy season. Knowing I was wanting to go with deep litter on a dirt floor I installed an 18" footing with 3 rows of block on top in hopes of keeping the wood shavings dry. They not only say dry but they help to dry the chickens after a day ranging in the rain, in the morning when I let them out they are nice a fluffy again. During bright sunny days the chickens will be in the sun coming thru the open door and taking dirt baths. As our walking in and out plus the hens doing their thing the wood shavings break down in size where the heavy traffic is, no problem, I scoop out a couple of 5 gallons buckets full (that goes around plants) and add 3 buckets of fresh shavings. Every now and then I just add a big feed bag of shavings (100 pound size bag) under the main perch. Daily the dirty shavings in the nest boxes gets scraped out which adds to the floor litter and new shavings get replaced in the nest boxes. Maybe once a year all of the shavings are scooped to the side so the holes the hens have scratched in the dirt gets filled then it is done to the opposite side. The coop does not smell even on the hottest most humid days we have. We have no mice problems as the hens like a fresh snack when they can get them. Other bugs come and go, either they don't stay or they are a chicken snack. There are snakes and scorpions here but not in the yard or coop, chickens like bugs, guineas kill snakes.



The footings have a good amount of rebar to stop cracking.



The tin extends down on the blocks enough so the blown rain doesn't enter. The added walk way is 3' wide and slops away from the coop. There is enough air that goes under the roof at the top of the tin walls to give good ventilation.

Unrelated question though. I hate keeping multiple feeds on hand. What if I kept just CornOatsBarley and a basic ration on hand - is there such a thing? You know, a layer pellet without the calcium? I was wondering if there was a protein to add when feeding. The ckns like beans, but it's an awful lot to cook up to raise the protein level of the COB ferment to the 18-20 range for the young'ns. I use for myself a rice protein (added to any flour based recipe, like oh, cookies, biscuits, things otherwise not so great) ; is there just a protein additive for livestock, so you can customize? What would I look for? Animal vs. vegetable? Once my mealy farm takes off that will help, but not enough I don't think, to eliminate protein added to feed entirely, especially once I start trying to fatten up the cockerels. I know some of you guys use a Game feed, which is 30% protein, but that's what I mean about the multiple feeds. I'd have to use apprx the same amount as cooked beans, basically almost 50:50 according to that lovely Pearson square calculation to get COB up to 18% or so (my COB is about 11%)... It'd be a whole lot easier if there were a concentrate? Am I dreaming? Power Bars for Chickens!

 

[Beekissed]

oh yeah I agree with ya totally am always on the look out for a better way or a solution to a problem I have, but hubby not that way. lol I guess I just need to let him scoop the poop for a month or so and then he will see.

Amen to that, sister! The one that does the dirty work is usually the one looking for a better way to get things done...without so much of the "dirty".

 

[RedRidge]

Le

Anyone else here smell the scent of engineer? Proud engineer? Justifiably, I just made my husband read the post, but still. Sheesh.

[COLOR=0000CD]Here in Costa Rica we get over 100" of rain during the 6 months of the rainy season. Knowing I was wanting to go with deep litter on a dirt floor I installed an 18" footing with 3 rows of block on top in hopes of keeping the wood shavings dry. They not only say dry but they help to dry the chickens after a day ranging in the rain, in the morning when I let them out they are nice a fluffy again. During bright sunny days the chickens will be in the sun coming thru the open door and taking dirt baths. As our walking in and out plus the hens doing their thing the wood shavings break down in size where the heavy traffic is, no problem, I scoop out a couple of 5 gallons buckets full (that goes around plants) and add 3 buckets of fresh shavings. Every now and then I just add a big feed bag of shavings (100 pound size bag) under the main perch. Daily the dirty shavings in the nest boxes gets scraped out which adds to the floor litter and new shavings get replaced in the nest boxes. Maybe once a year all of the shavings are scooped to the side so the holes the hens have scratched in the dirt gets filled then it is done to the opposite side. The coop does not smell even on the hottest most humid days we have. We have no mice problems as the hens like a fresh snack when they can get them. Other bugs come and go, either they don't stay or they are a chicken snack. There are snakes and scorpions here but not in the yard or coop, chickens like bugs, guineas kill snakes.[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000CD] [/COLOR] [COLOR=0000CD]The footings have a good amount of rebar to stop cracking.[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000CD] [/COLOR] [COLOR=0000CD]The tin extends down on the blocks enough so the blown rain doesn't enter. The added walk way is 3' wide and slops away from the coop. There is enough air that goes under the roof at the top of the tin walls to give good ventilation.[/COLOR]

Unrelated question though. I hate keeping multiple feeds on hand. What if I kept just CornOatsBarley and a basic ration on hand - is there such a thing? You know, a layer pellet without the calcium? I was wondering if there was a protein to add when feeding. The ckns like beans, but it's an awful lot to cook up to raise the protein level of the COB ferment to the 18-20 range for the young'ns. I use for myself a rice protein (added to any flour based recipe, like oh, cookies, biscuits, things otherwise not so great) ; is there just a protein additive for livestock, so you can customize? What would I look for? Animal vs. vegetable? Once my mealy farm takes off that will help, but not enough I don't think, to eliminate protein added to feed entirely, especially once I start trying to fatten up the cockerels. I know some of you guys use a Game feed, which is 30% protein, but that's what I mean about the multiple feeds. I'd have to use apprx the same amount as cooked beans, basically almost 50:50 according to that lovely Pearson square calculation to get COB up to 18% or so (my COB is about 11%)... It'd be a whole lot easier if there were a concentrate? Am I dreaming? Power Bars for Chickens!

AletaG This is what I do... I have cattle, sheep and chickens. I keep corn, oats, and field peas. Very easy to balance rations from there. There are a couple of options for animal protein. Traveling right now... So more later.

 

[Zootopia]

Costa Rica Art that is some nice digs those chooks gave there! Mine are in an old converted lean to / barn.

Lacy Blues, DE of course, don't know why I didn't think of that. Thanks

 

[RoseMarie1]

Amen to that, sister! The one that does the dirty work is usually the one looking for a better way to get things done...without so much of the "dirty".

Well I told hubby what we were discussing on here and how I said he bout had a cow when I said DLM on his sand. lol Then I told him how Bee (he loves you to through me, lol) said this would be sooooo much better and save money AND with the husbandary approach you have to always be looking for a better way of doing things and this woud be soooo much better.

.......ANDDDDDD help the garden when we have to clean it out once a year..... and dump it in the garden.

So he says we could do that but we already bought that plywood to fix the shelf and I say oh we could take that back and get our money back. So he's a happy camper now, he wont have to help me make the poop shelf (I was just going to do it myself but he actually wanted to help with it) AND he gets his money back as well. lol So now I/we gotta get busy getting straw and leaves and bark. He's gonna ask around about the tree bark to see if anyone knows where we can get that.

I'm also asking on the Facebook page for around here. No mo scooping poop for me! Now just so there's NO SNAKE that gets in under that DLM and I will be fine! Don't do those things AT ALL!

I do have bird netting around their roosting area so they will get caught in it IF ones tries to get in there though. It's worked AWESOME for my goldfish pond.
THANK YOU BEE!!!!!

I am so excited!




Another ?...... what do you all do about their dusting areas in the pens with the DLM? They have a couple places they dust in the back side of the run that is covered and if I do DLM through the run AND the roosting area, the DL will be pulled all through those areas as well. Do you all have dusting boxes or something? ALSO how do you keep them from getting lice or mites? Do you put something natural in there or what? With all the garlic they're eating don't know if any kind of bug would want to get on them!

But just wondering what you all do about this with the DLM?