Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[BlueMouse]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand it, it's not actually increasing the protien, it's making more of it bioavailable to the chicken. Sort of like pre digesting. So your chickens get more out of less feed. Protien is a big one, and I've heard conflicting numbers, but I think you can assume 2-3% increase, but also all the other nutrients. And, in addition to making it easier to digest, it's helping to populate their gut with the good flora that do a lot of the work of digestion, which makes their gut more efficient, so you're not getting feed passing through undigested. It's been hypothesized that's why you see a reduction in odor and flies around chickens who are fed FF.

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand it, it's not actually increasing the protien, it's making more of it bioavailable to the chicken. Sort of like pre digesting. So your chickens get more out of less feed. Protien is a big one, and I've heard conflicting numbers, but I think you can assume 2-3% increase, but also all the other nutrients. And, in addition to making it easier to digest, it's helping to populate their gut with the good flora that do a lot of the work of digestion, which makes their gut more efficient, so you're not getting feed passing through undigested. It's been hypothesized that's why you see a reduction in odor and flies around chickens who are fed FF.

I'm starting to understand. So basically, when feeding dry feed, not all of the protein is absorbed. When fermented, it still has the same amount of protein there, but that protein that wasn't absorbed before and was pooped out is now able to be utilized. Do I have it right?

 

[BlueMouse]

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

Thank you for the explanation BlueMouse.

I was wondering if maybe the mold spores are protein, lol.

 

[Beekissed]

I know it's been said that fermenting feed increases the protein %. However, when I look at my ff, I do not see how it's possible for there to be more than maybe a 2% increase. I just can't see it. I really like feeding the ff, but can someone please explain to me in simple terms how fermenting feed is supposed to increase the amount of protein?

It doesn't increase the total proteins but increases the total nutrients absorbed or utilized by the digestive system. From what I can understand from all the material I've read, the carbohydrates in the grains are changed into a more useable form, as are the minerals as the phytates are removed by the fermentation process. I can only go by what I've read on the studies done and I'm no scientist, by any means, so I'm not really into the fine details. Found a few articles that explain the benefits of fermentation on the grains when it comes to monogastric digestive systems like ours..and chickens.


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More about the role of phytases in increasing the nutrient value of grain feeds for nonruminants...


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From what I understand, the enzymes that are increased in the small intestine by the ingestion of the LABs and prebiotics of acetobacter bacilli, have the ability to actually produce proteins that are absorbed and utilized as nutrition by the host animal on a cellular level. Now..this is where I get lost and stay lost and will willingly never try to find the rest of the reasoning behind all the microbiology behind it all.

Quote: Here's a link to the information on conjugated proteins..they are about half way down the page...

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Principles_of_Biochemistry/Amino_acids_and_proteins

Suffice it to say that it appears that total nutrition absorption is changed by the simple act of fermentation and it's not just the protein, but all the minerals and vitamins as well from what I can gather from all the scientific gobbledy gook. I'm not one to look beyond a certain point on the why of things when the results are easily visible, so I'm not one to explain it all nor do I want to really know but maybe someone out there with more interest in the microbiology side of it all can help you with this.

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

It doesn't increase the total proteins but increases the total nutrients absorbed or utilized by the digestive system. From what I can understand from all the material I've read, the carbohydrates in the grains are changed into a more useable form, as are the minerals as the phytates are removed by the fermentation process. I can only go by what I've read on the studies done and I'm no scientist, by any means, so I'm not really into the fine details. Found a few articles that explain the benefits of fermentation on the grains when it comes to monogastric digestive systems like ours..and chickens.



More about the role of phytases in increasing the nutrient value of grain feeds for nonruminants...



From what I understand, the enzymes that are increased in the small intestine by the ingestion of the LABs and prebiotics of acetobacter bacilli, have the ability to actually produce proteins that are absorbed and utilized as nutrition by the host animal on a cellular level. Now..this is where I get lost and stay lost and will willingly never try to find the rest of the reasoning behind all the microbiology behind it all.

Here's a link to the information on conjugated proteins..they are about half way down the page...

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Principles_of_Biochemistry/Amino_acids_and_proteins

Suffice it to say that it appears that total nutrition absorption is changed by the simple act of fermentation and it's not just the protein, but all the minerals and vitamins as well from what I can gather from all the scientific gobbledy gook. I'm not one to look beyond a certain point on the why of things when the results are easily visible, so I'm not one to explain it all nor do I want to really know but maybe someone out there with more interest in the microbiology side of it all can help you with this.

Thank you for the explanation, very interesting reads! I hadn't thought of how the poop may make better fertilizer due to a reduced amount of phosphorous, very interesting indeed. I bet ff poo will burn the grass less than non ff poo.

 

[Beekissed]

To me, the poop now seems to just disappear in the deep litter...not as gooey and persistent in maintaining its shape and texture. Not sure of the chemical processes behind that but the flies are no longer interested, Jake is no longer interested but the bugs seem to like it just fine and when I dig down into the litter I can't find old, dried droppings in it...they just disintegrate or are eaten by the insects, not sure.

Out in the yard, the rains seem to wash the poop away quicker or the bugs are taking care of it because I have places where the birds congregate and poop a lot but within a couple of days that poop is no longer there. These places are out of the dog's territory so I know he isn't snacking when I'm not looking...he's not snacking on them at all any longer, which is strange.

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

Disintegrating poop sounds great. Hopefully mine will do the same, I can't tell yet because the chickens are not quite accustomed to the ff yet. I'm sure it'll help reduce the risk of disease as well.

 

[foreverlearning]

Question for you all:
Can regular laying hens over eat the FF like meat birds do or do they just stop when they have had enough?
I am new to FF and decided to try it on my broilers first and limit them to 2-3 feedings a day depending on the looks of their crops, it seems they don't have a shut off valve in their heads. However one of my hens wanted to know what I was "cooking" so I put a bowl of it out there for them. Every time I go near it to stir she flys in the window to get more and can't seem to get enough. (Out of 8 months with her this is the only time I have ever seen her fly!) They are still free ranging really good no matter how much I give them. Also, the rest of my flock will not touch their dry food anymore.
I just want to make sure that I don't have to limit it with my regular flock. When they were free ranging with dry feed they only went threw about 15# of dry feed a month free access. It seems like I gave at least half of that in feeding FF today alone. I know it seems like I am giving more and in reality am giving less, I just don't want to harm my girls.

 

[RoseMarie1]

Here's a strange one; yesterday and this morning a caught a few of my chickens picking and eating the styrofoam insulation that is between the outer walls of the house and the vinyl siding. They are going up to the side of the house and reaching up under the siding to pick at it. This is frustrating as I have to find something to block them for eating it but in the meantime if they do eat some, will it cause harm ?

un-doubtly not because mine have done the same thing and they dearly LOVE this stuff for some reason!

When we put the tin up on the north wall and the west wall of their pen, the tin has big humps in it so I filled all those in so snakes couldn't get in AND so it would be warmer in the winter time. I have had to keep poultry wire leaned up on each side on the inside so they can't get at it. Then on the outside I have pieces of ceramic tiles to keep them out of it. I was so worried when I first saw they did this but then when they were alright the next morning I was like well, I guess they are OK. Can you nail some narrow pieces of the poultry wire over it so they can't get at it?