Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Triple Willow]

I was just looking at that link that I found while looking it up like you suggested. Thank you it looks like the female one they have on there. It makes me feel better knowing that I don't have to worry with the kids. Do they go after grown chickens? I have one that is a really small breed but she is really flighty. I finished the head count and it was 4 like I thought.

Dang I'm sorry it got your chicks! You're not having a very good couple days! I believe a big one could kill a grown chicken (because they are constrictors) but you don't hear of it very often. They usually go for eggs or smaller chicks. Sometimes they will kill a bigger chick and try to eat it then when it is too big to get down they spit it back out. You find those bigger chicks dead with a wet/slimmy head and neck. No they shouldn't be any threat to your kids. The worst that could happen would be if one bit somebody and the sight of the bite were to get infected. It is important to clean it well and maybe go to the doctor to be sure it didn't leave some of its little boney teeth in your skin. I'm sure they would want to give antibiotics but I wouldn't take them. I have been out and about around snakes all my life and have a bunch at my place now but so far I have never been bit. They are more of an asset than any danger... until they start eating all your eggs and chicks. But you can snake proof your coop/run with hardware cloth. But venomous snakes are a whole different story! They have to die at my place! It's good to learn all your local snakes so you always know what your dealing with.

 

[Triple Willow]

I was just looking at that link that I found while looking it up like you suggested. Thank you it looks like the female one they have on there. It makes me feel better knowing that I don't have to worry with the kids. Do they go after grown chickens? I have one that is a really small breed but she is really flighty. I finished the head count and it was 4 like I thought.

Dang I'm sorry it got your chicks! You're not having a very good couple days! I believe a big one could kill a grown chicken (because they are constrictors) but you don't hear of it very often. They usually go for eggs or smaller chicks. Sometimes they will kill a bigger chick and try to eat it then when it is too big to get down they spit it back out. You find those bigger chicks dead with a wet/slimmy head and neck. No they shouldn't be any threat to your kids. The worst that could happen would be if one bit somebody and the sight of the bite were to get infected. It is important to clean it well and maybe go to the doctor to be sure it didn't leave some of its little boney teeth in your skin. I'm sure they would want to give antibiotics but I wouldn't take them. I have been out and about around snakes all my life and have a bunch at my place now but so far I have never been bit. They are more of an asset than any danger... until they start eating all your eggs and chicks. But you can snake proof your coop/run with hardware cloth. But venomous snakes are a whole different story! They have to die at my place! It's good to learn all your local snakes so you always know what your dealing with.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Does anyone know if fermenting feed that is higher in protein (16-18%) will cause an increase in the already existing protein ? I'm asking because after 3 week+ of feeding FF my chickens still seem to have runny stool for the most part. I've decreased the amount of moisture content in the FF and they free range from time to time so I thought this would firm up their stool but it seems they are still having runny stool more often than not. I've read that high concentrations of protein can cause more urates which in turn will cause runnier stool. So if fermenting their feed will increase the already present protein then this may explain why they are dropping runny stool so often.

If they are absorbing more protein then why would their stools be so runny ? I'm Confused as to why they continue to have loose/runny droppings if they are absorbing more protein with the FF and I have greatly reduced the amount of moisture in the FF. I was hoping by now that their stools would be back to the way they were when I had them on dry feed.

If its hot where you live, they will drink lots of water to stay cool and also practically HOSE the ground with their droppings! It's gross but its normal. It's a cooling method.

Is it normal for the chicks to be messing with their feathers alot? I am seeing them what I THINK is grooming a lot all of a sudden and wondering if they have just gotten some critters or something. I've tried checking them but can't see anything for all these new feathers coming n. Maybe that's bothering them, the new feathers coming in? Still going to slap some sulfur in their run where there is dirt so they can dust in that and been putting it on their roost to.

SULFUR? I have never heard of using sulfur for dusting. I would be way too concerned about them breathing it in. Also, they rake the ground with their beaks to loosen it for dusting so they would likely be ingesting it too. There are safer things to use.

 

[Triple Willow]

I was just looking at that link that I found while looking it up like you suggested. Thank you it looks like the female one they have on there. It makes me feel better knowing that I don't have to worry with the kids. Do they go after grown chickens? I have one that is a really small breed but she is really flighty. I finished the head count and it was 4 like I thought.

Dang I'm sorry it got your chicks! You're not having a very good couple days! I believe a big one could kill a grown chicken (because they are constrictors) but you don't hear of it very often. They usually go for eggs or smaller chicks. Sometimes they will kill a bigger chick and try to eat it then when it is too big to get down they spit it back out. You find those bigger chicks dead with a wet/slimmy head and neck. No they shouldn't be any threat to your kids. The worst that could happen would be if one bit somebody and the sight of the bite were to get infected. It is important to clean it well and maybe go to the doctor to be sure it didn't leave some of its little boney teeth in your skin. I'm sure they would want to give antibiotics but I wouldn't take them. I have been out and about around snakes all my life and have a bunch at my place now but so far I have never been bit. They are more of an asset than any danger... until they start eating all your eggs and chicks. But you can snake proof your coop/run with hardware cloth. But venomous snakes are a whole different story! They have to die at my place! It's good to learn all your local snakes so you always know what your dealing with.

 

[foreverlearning]

Dang I'm sorry it got your chicks! You're not having a very good couple days!

I believe a big one could kill a grown chicken (because they are constrictors) but you don't hear of it very often. They usually go for eggs or smaller chicks. Sometimes they will kill a bigger chick and try to eat it then when it is too big to get down they spit it back out. You find those bigger chicks dead with a wet/slimmy head and neck. No they shouldn't be any threat to your kids. The worst that could happen would be if one bit somebody and the sight of the bite were to get infected. It is important to clean it well and maybe go to the doctor to be sure it didn't leave some of its little boney teeth in your skin. I'm sure they would want to give antibiotics but I wouldn't take them. I have been out and about around snakes all my life and have a bunch at my place now but so far I have never been bit. They are more of an asset than any danger... until they start eating all your eggs and chicks. But you can snake proof your coop/run with hardware cloth. But venomous snakes are a whole different story! They have to die at my place! It's good to learn all your local snakes so you always know what your dealing with.

I went ahead and got bird netting to cover the areas where the 1" hex wire meet. It looked like it got in on top where I had the wire connected and when full couldn't figure out how to get out. I think I found a fix to the fluid problem though, at least that looks up. I drained one last night and it grew back a little bit, so I drained it again and it stayed under the heat lamp (where it normally didn't want to be). This morning everything looked good so I drained the rest of them. I put a heat lamp in the covered part of their run just in case, sure enough every one of them ran under it even though it is over 95 here. They stood there for about 3 hours and now are looking and acting normal. I even caught one out there sun bathing. All the healthy ones are staying well away from the heat lamp outside, the only ones near it are the ones that were drained. I wonder if the excess heat somehow helps them heal? No regrowth today and yesterdays was quick so I think it is clear for now. I will still keep an eye out for them just in case. You can still see where the skin had stretched, it looks like an old (90+) mans skin.

 

[7acres]

Some snakes might not hurt you, but they sure can make you hurt yourself!

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

If its hot where you live, they will drink lots of water to stay cool and also practically HOSE the ground with their droppings!  It's gross but its normal.  It's a cooling method.

SULFUR?   I have never heard of using sulfur for dusting.  I would be way too concerned about them breathing it in.  Also, they rake the ground with their beaks to loosen it for dusting so they would likely be ingesting it too.  There are safer things to use.

Hi Lacy Blues... That's the thing, it hasn't been OVERLY hot here but more just warm which could still cause them to drink a fair amount I guess. Either way I'll keep an eye on things just to ensure everything is ok.

 

[foreverlearning]

Some snakes might not hurt you, but they sure can make you hurt yourself!

Completely agree!!!

 

[Beekissed]

If its hot where you live, they will drink lots of water to stay cool and also practically HOSE the ground with their droppings! It's gross but its normal. It's a cooling method.

SULFUR? I have never heard of using sulfur for dusting. I would be way too concerned about them breathing it in. Also, they rake the ground with their beaks to loosen it for dusting so they would likely be ingesting it too. There are safer things to use.

It won't hurt them to ingest a little sulfur and they may get a little in their lungs when they dust but it will do no permanent damage. Sulfur is actually good for them in some ways...their own eggs contain sulfur, garlic contains sulfur, the meds that everyone keeps choking down their birds contain sulfur. A little in the gut or the lungs isn't going to harm them.

Does anyone know if fermenting feed that is higher in protein (16-18%) will cause an increase in the already existing protein ? I'm asking because after 3 week+ of feeding FF my chickens still seem to have runny stool for the most part. I've decreased the amount of moisture content in the FF and they free range from time to time so I thought this would firm up their stool but it seems they are still having runny stool more often than not. I've read that high concentrations of protein can cause more urates which in turn will cause runnier stool. So if fermenting their feed will increase the already present protein then this may explain why they are dropping runny stool so often.

If you are feeding higher than 16-18% dry feed, it is likely your birds never got the full benefit of the dry feed proteins...now that you are fermenting it, they are absorbing more of the available proteins and the percentage you are making available may be too harsh on their digestive tracts. It can and will cause runny stool.

When people give their animals calf manna and other rich feeds, it can really burn them out, especially if they give too much or for too long...the additional protein found in that kind of high protein feed causes the animals to have diarrhea. I've made that mistake before when giving calf manna to meat rabbits to fatten them up for show.

This is why I never encourage people to mix their own feeds unless they know what they are doing...really know what they are doing. Any feeds given to layers that is above 18%, I can tell you already that it is too high. No bird needs that high of a level of protein to sustain good laying and health. I never feed healthy chickens higher than 16% and when I adjust that level, I always adjust down..not up.

I know they are selling feeds out there now that contain a higher percentage of protein and it always makes me wonder why? A chicken cannot handle that level of proteins for extended periods of time and it will often lead to liver disease, renal disease and conditions like bumble foot, prolapse, egg bound, internal laying, etc.

If you are currently fermenting anything above 18%, I'd add some low protein grain by 50% to cut that protein level. Unless your birds are out running races or competing in the Olympics, none of them need anymore than 16-18% to maintain good health and good lay.

My understanding is it doesn't increase the existing protein, it increases how well the birds can absorb said protein by a few percent. So a 16% feed they really absorb only like 14%, but with FF they absorb all of it.

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Exactly! So, for years I've maintained excellent lay and health in my flocks by feeding around 14% absorption and even lower in the winter time...much lower! Now that I ferment, I'm probably getting the percentage that it says on the label and so I feed less feed and even cut that protein in the winter...actually, I'm cutting it right now by using 2/3 layer mash, 1/3 steamed barley.

If they are absorbing more protein then why would their stools be so runny ? I'm Confused as to why they continue to have loose/runny droppings if they are absorbing more protein with the FF and I have greatly reduced the amount of moisture in the FF. I was hoping by now that their stools would be back to the way they were when I had them on dry feed.

How much protein are you actually feeding right now? That could hold the answer. You realize the higher you go on protein, the more it scours out the intestines, right?

The one I drained yesterday, like I said some of it did fill back yesterday. I had noticed that when she had it full she hated to be near the heat lamp, last night I think if she could have slept on it she would have. This morning there were NO losses!

The only way I could tell who she is was because of the zip tie on her leg. Everyone that looks like that are getting treated like her. I don't know how long this will last, or if I will have to do repeat treatments. I will keep you all posted.

You live in LA? I'm curious...what are your day and night temps? That's great news about the chick!!! Good job!

 

[foreverlearning]

You live in LA? I'm curious...what are your day and night temps? That's great news about the chick!!! Good job!

Lately the day time is from 90-100. Night time is from 75-80. They go out on the cooler side of the day and have half shade and half sun so they have a choice. If the temps are good with low wind I will let them outside several times a day. At night they are inside as I have no way to control the outside temp then. It was 96 when the ill ones wanted to stand as close to the heat lamp as possible. I thought that was strange. When the temps get a little warm I look for signs of laying in the shade and their breathing to see if they need to come inside. Right now they have an 8'X8' (non stop it seems it needs to be moved) run and within the next couple of days they will be moving to the big run. When they come out of the brooder I plan to let them free range with my flock.