Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[foreverlearning]

Huh! Never knew they had a choice out there as to the colors, other than the red ones. Wonder what breed genetics went into all that. Their statement about not developing ascites is a little ironic, though....I sure hope that is the end to all that and you turn out a fine crop of meat birds when all is said and done! You'll have to report back to us with the finished product and let us know if their health held out.

That's what I was thinking about the Ascities. I did everything I could think of to prevent it from choosing the breed to restricting the feed and even watching the temps. I have no idea what crosses went into them as everyone on here only seem to talk about the cornish.

 

[Triple Willow]

After the week I am having, I just have to thank the good lord that they are still alive.

Did you see the articles I posted last night about ascites. It may help you treat it. From what I got from it ascites is pretty much caused by high blood pressure. One article said it can be caused by too much salt in the feed or maybe even the water or possible too high protein. It explained where all the fluid comes from. From the ones I have seen they probably do have a fever.

 

[Triple Willow]

Some snakes might not hurt you, but they sure can make you hurt yourself!

Amen to that! lol Right after posting earlier about Foreverlearning's snake deal, I go to leave the house and there goes one across my driveway. Skeert me there for a minute! LOL I bet his hiney was smoking, those rocks had to be HOT.

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

It won't hurt them to ingest a little sulfur and they may get a little in their lungs when they dust but it will do no permanent damage.  Sulfur is actually good for them in some ways...their own eggs contain sulfur, garlic contains sulfur, the meds that everyone keeps choking down their birds contain sulfur.   A little in the gut or the lungs isn't going to harm them. 

If you are feeding higher than 16-18% dry feed, it is likely your birds never got the full benefit of the dry feed proteins...now that you are fermenting it, they are absorbing more of the available proteins and the percentage you are making available may be too harsh on their digestive tracts.  It can and will cause runny stool. 

When people give their animals calf manna and other rich feeds, it can really burn them out, especially if they give too much or for too long...the additional protein found in that kind of high protein feed causes the animals to have diarrhea.  I've made that mistake before when giving calf manna to meat rabbits to fatten them up for show. 

This is why I never encourage people to mix their own feeds unless they know what they are doing...really know what they are doing.  Any feeds given to layers that is above 18%, I can tell you already that it is too high.  No bird needs that high of a level of protein to sustain good laying and health.  I never feed healthy chickens higher than 16% and when I adjust that level, I always adjust down..not up.

I know they are selling feeds out there now that contain a higher percentage of protein and it always makes me wonder why?  A chicken cannot handle that level of proteins for extended periods of time and it will often lead to liver disease, renal disease and conditions like bumble foot, prolapse, egg bound, internal laying, etc. 

If you are currently fermenting anything above 18%, I'd add some low protein grain by 50% to cut that protein level.  Unless your birds are out running races or competing in the Olympics, none of them need anymore than 16-18% to maintain good health and good lay. 

Exactly!  So, for years I've maintained excellent lay and health in my flocks by feeding around 14% absorption and even lower in the winter time...much lower!  Now that I ferment, I'm probably getting the percentage that it says on the label and so I feed less feed and even cut that protein in the winter...actually, I'm cutting it right now by using 2/3 layer mash, 1/3  steamed barley. 

How much protein are you actually feeding right now?  That could hold the answer.  You realize the higher you go on protein, the more it scours out the intestines, right? 

You live in LA?  I'm curious...what are your day and night temps?  That's great news about the chick!!!  Good job!   

Thanks for the information, Bee. Currently I am fermenting a grower feed for 13 - 12 week old chicks. The label indicates the feed is 16-18% protein. I didn't not know that it would scour their intestines or anything of the sort. I'm new to the whole FF thing and I just want to do what is best for the birds. Should I cut the grower feed altogether and start them on a layer feed that has less protein and if so what should the percentage on the label say for protein percentage ? And also, you were saying to cut the protein down I can mix a low protein grain by 50%; do you mean mix 50% of the grain feed and 50% of the grower ? Also, when you say low protein grain, how low should it be ?

 

[CrunchyMeatEatr]

I'm going on a business trip for about a week and a half, while I'm gone I was just going to have my neighbor check on my chickens everyday or two which means putting them back on dry feed while I'm gone. What do you suggest I do with the bucket of fermented feed since it likely won't get stirred regularly if at all while I'm gone? Should I just give them it all including fluid and then start all over when I get back?

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks for the information, Bee. Currently I am fermenting a grower feed for 13 - 12 week old chicks. The label indicates the feed is 16-18% protein. I didn't not know that it would scour their intestines or anything of the sort. I'm new to the whole FF thing and I just want to do what is best for the birds. Should I cut the grower feed altogether and start them on a layer feed that has less protein and if so what should the percentage on the label say for protein percentage ? And also, you were saying to cut the protein down I can mix a low protein grain by 50%; do you mean mix 50% of the grain feed and 50% of the grower ? Also, when you say low protein grain, how low should it be ?

If your current feed is only 16-18%, the runny stools might not be from high protein...I thought your original post was indicating you were feeding a higher protein than that. If that is what you are feeding, it's not likely they are getting scoured from it...but more likely because of the time of year and high water consumption. You can try to bulk up your fiber by feeding a high fiber, lower protein grain like the barley to see if it will help with it, but it may just be because of the hot temps.

I wouldn't get too bogged down into protein percentages of grains...usually the cheaper the grain, the lower the protein, so just buy some cheaper grain and throw it in there at 30-50% ratio and see what comes out. I wouldn't overthink the process too much...I never do and I never calculate the percentages when I add whole grains...I just know the ones I add are less protein and so they will automatically bring the total percentage down. I don't really need to know how MUCH it brings it down as long as I keep 50% of the ration with 16% layer, it all seems to work out fine.

I know...it's just all so imprecise, isn't it?

I never really measure anything and I don't sit and calculate feed percentages...I just throw it together and watch the birds. That's all you can really do, in the end, is experiment on your own and see what happens when you do...birds can be very forgiving and you can always tweak up or down to correct any poor outcomes if you are really watching your flock every day.

I'm going on a business trip for about a week and a half, while I'm gone I was just going to have my neighbor check on my chickens everyday or two which means putting them back on dry feed while I'm gone. What do you suggest I do with the bucket of fermented feed since it likely won't get stirred regularly if at all while I'm gone? Should I just give them it all including fluid and then start all over when I get back?

If it were me? I'd ask the neighbor to feed the chickens when he checks on them every day or two and stir the FF when he does it!

Do you trust him? If he isn't some kind of dunderhead, he should be able to handle scooping out some feed, stirring it and closing it back up again.

If he is a dunderhead, just feed the dry feed and don't worry, keep your fluid only and it will be fine~dump the rest~ and start all over when you get back.

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

If your current feed is only 16-18%, the runny stools might not be from high protein...I thought your original post was indicating you were feeding a higher protein than that.  If that is what you are feeding, it's not likely they are getting scoured from it...but more likely because of the time of year and high water consumption.  You can try to bulk up your fiber by feeding a high fiber, lower protein grain like the barley to see if it will help with it, but it may just be because of the hot temps. 

I wouldn't get too bogged down into protein percentages of grains...usually the cheaper the grain, the lower the protein, so just buy some cheaper grain and throw it in there at 30-50% ratio and see what comes out.  I wouldn't overthink the process too much...I never do and I never calculate the percentages when I add whole grains...I just know the ones I add are less protein and so they will automatically bring the total percentage down.  I don't really need to know how MUCH it brings it down as long as I keep 50% of the ration with 16% layer, it all seems to work out fine. 

I know...it's just all so imprecise, isn't it?    I never really measure anything and I don't sit and calculate feed percentages...I just throw it together and watch the birds.  That's all you can really do, in the end, is experiment on your own and see what happens when you do...birds can be very forgiving and you can always tweak up or down to correct any poor outcomes if you are really watching your flock every day. 

Hi Bee. Thanks for the input, much appreciated ! Yes, the grower they are currently on is 16-18% protein, sorry for the confusion in any previous post. I'm going to try and go with the lower protein grain and see what happens. When you say 30-50% ration, do you mean mix it such that I have about half of the grower feed mixed with half of the grain feed and then continue to ferment it ?

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

Does this look like normal stool ?

 

[Beekissed]

Yep! I just mix mine in a big ol' trash can...dumped in a 100 lbs of layer and 50 lbs of barley. As the time grows into fall, I may add some BOSS into it for a little fat...but then as winter gets into gear I usually mix the layer and barley or oats, whatever I think is the grain of the day, at half and half...some BOSS kind of floats into all the mixes and I still find a few seeds of it now and again even a year later in the mix as I continue to change out and mix things. Come early spring I go back to 100% mash again and start that cycle all over again.

I know...crazy. But, that's just how I do...when the eggs slow down, I cut nutrition because they don't need it. When the eggs pick up, I go back to layer because they need it.

Every fall I add a little fats to the lower protein feed so they still get fat~ but not an increase in protein~ so they go into the winter with a little insulation and it helps with their feather regrowth from molt.

Just as wild birds get a little less protein as it gets cold and they turn to eating seeds and nuts for the fats, that's what happens to my birds as well. In the winter the birds in the wild get less proteins, but as bugs increase in the spring and they are in production mode, they consume more proteins for that. So do my birds then also.

I try to keep them on a natural cycle of eating and the free range helps with all of that.

 

[Beekissed]

Got a question...anyone with a cross beak being fed on FF notice any changes? Someone on another forum had a cross beak and started on the FF and now that bird no longer has a cross beak! It was not born with one but developed one...and now has UN-developed one. Could cross beak be a nutritional defect in these birds that is corrected by the FF?

Here's a little info that may explain why FF could help with cross beak that wasn't present at birth...not conclusive, by all means, but it still may hold a clue:

, scroll down to see graph). Not very many plant foods can make that claim. Fermentation also increases the concentration of the amino acid methionine and certain vitamins.

And totally unrelated to the topic of the post, but impressive still, is the increase in thiamine; an essential need for the immune, nerve and reproductive systems of the chickens.