Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Triple Willow]

Hilarious! I'd love to send that to my BIL who's a music teacher. Where'd you find that?

I've moved my ff up to the kitchen area from the cold basement. Nice & warm now. Hope my hubby doesn't pitch a fit now.

My ff is out in my garage with the window open and it is doing fine and smells tasty. It has been down in the 30's most nights.

 

[Demosthine]

I may get scolded for this, but here goes: I have much more experience making wine than fermenting feed, but wine making is a process of fermentation. Whenever you ferment something, you are wanting a particular organism to grow in the container. Sometimes the wrong organism gets in there and takes over. When fermenting wine, it has to be carefully protected from contamination or it could be taken over by bacteria. When fermenting feed we want it to be taken over by bacteria, but not just any old bacteria, that's one of the reasons that folks use vinegar, buttermilk, etc. to get the fermentation started. With the billions of different bacteria out there, I don't think it would be crazy to suggest that maybe your FF has been taken over by a bad bug. If I were in your position, I would keep the current batch going, but start another new batch from scratch and be careful not to cross-contaminate the two. Let the new batch ferment for a few days and see if your chickens react differently to it.

As a fellow winemaker myself, I have to both scold you and help you educate yourself. There are a few fallacies to your statements.

Firstly, winemaking is not a sterile environment no matter what precautions you wake. When you use fruit, there are all sorts of bacteria in and on the fruit. You can not sterilize them, as had been seen by numerous foodborne illness outbreaks in "safely" packaged foods. It's a nice though, but more of a dream. You will always have stray bacteria in the mix.

Second, we do not use an airlock so much to keep the wild yeast out as we do the oxygen. Wine yeasts flourish in an oxygen free environment, just as botulism does. Wild yeasts, such as those used to make vinegar, kraut and fermented feed require oxygen to thrive. That is why a properly aging unpasteurized vinegar and crocks are not sealed. The food is kept underwater to prevent spoiling, but to allow oxygen absorbtion in to the brine.

Thirdly, in terms of allowing wild yeast in to a wine, it is not about the wine going bad. Itcs about the specific taste you desire. Each strain will give you a slightly different flavor to them. Some are more potent, while others are mild.


With our chickens, the fermented feed is completely different. It is even a different type of fermentation. There is a learning curve to both winemaking and the feed if you truly want to understand it, but please donct confuse the two processes.

 

[Shellz]

I like my own creations better.

 

[Shellz]

My 22 year old daughter sent it to me on FB.  Here is the link:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/f3bc6836a77cf873f3e073576800a87a/tumblr_mwgz5meRDl1rfiyczo1_500.png

She came home while I was out and found our very first hatchling this year and adopted him....she named him Gil-bird.  I asked her what she was going to call it if it is a girl and she said Gil-birda.  Well, he turned out to be a Gil-bird.  He is a capon now, so he dodged the first bullet.   She loves that bird, but doesn't have a problem with him being on the table....as long as she doesn't have to do the deed.  So she sends me stuff like this all the time. I hope you BIL gets a kick out of it.

Cute story. Thanks for the link - I just know he's going to crack up when he sees it.

My ff is out in my garage with the window open and it is doing fine and smells tasty. It has been down in the 30's most nights.

You know, I thought of that...it's definitely an option if hubby doesn't want it in the house. Thanks for confirming that it'll be ok. I have a window open a few inches playing loud talk radio as a deterrent for small predators.

 

[ChickenManTN]

Yep...you're going to get scolded. You cannot control the bacteria that enter into the mix...but this is not like making wine, where you have to keep out wild vinegar yeasts or you will just make vinegar. The LABs in good fermentation colonize the mix, then the acetobacter colonize the mix and both of these colonies inhibit the over growth of harmful bacteria in the mix. All our fermentation is being exposed to whatever bacteria is out there and most harmful bacteria/molds are pretty weak and fragile compared to the strong LABs and acetobacters in these mixes. The only way the harmful pathogens could grow to numbers enough to affect the feed and thereby poison the flock is if the good microorganisms had been killed off to sufficient numbers that they could no longer inhibit the over growth of the harmful pathogens.

There's really only a few ways to kill off those good bacteria/yeasts....an antibacterial, antifungal agent or to starve the good guys. If the feed is being tended by fresh feed now and again and she isn't dumping bleach or something similar in her bucket, it's highly.....and I do mean highly...unlikely that it could be a spoiled bucket of feed.

Please, please, don't turn this method of feeding into a hysteria laden mystery for folks like a few of the blog sites out there, currently feeding the masses with incorrect propaganda on it. It's simple, it's not dangerous, it's not fussy and it doesn't require glass beakers to produce and it doesn't need water over the feed, a lid down tight, using the water from the last batch will not store up or build up harmful sugar amounts, it doesn't need to be started with LABs to produce LABs for fermentation, etc. ad nauseum.

It's just grain, water and a bucket...add air and wait. If you keep to that formula, this method of feeding is as safe as any other.

I am guessing now that the potential for contamination may run somewhere around one in a million. Taking that into consideration, it is still possible. Ignoring the difference between improbable and impossible is not an option, especially when erring to the side of caution only poses the risk of losing five minutes of your time. If you have a batch that has been fermenting for six months and the chickens stop eating it, I think it is reasonable to suggest taking five minutes to start another bucket and see if they react differently to the new batch instead of immediately removing all other food options. I'm not suggesting a hysterical freak-out, just a bit of caution that could be exercised in less time than it takes to read a couple posts on BYC.

I do trust your wisdom on the subject. I'm really not all that paranoid, probably more obsessive compulsive, if I had to make diagnosis.

On that note, I will be taking your advice and abandoning my obsessive three jar mess and going with the good ol' bucket. I'm fairly slow sometimes, but eventually I catch up, ...finally realized that they will be getting plenty of well-fermented feed and not a bunch of the fresh stuff from the day before if the container has more than a couple days worth of feed in it. (DUH! I told you I'm slow. Thank you for your patience.)

 

[ChickenManTN]

As a fellow winemaker myself, I have to both scold you and help you educate yourself. There are a few fallacies to your statements.

Firstly, winemaking is not a sterile environment no matter what precautions you wake. When you use fruit, there are all sorts of bacteria in and on the fruit. You can not sterilize them, as had been seen by numerous foodborne illness outbreaks in "safely" packaged foods. It's a nice though, but more of a dream. You will always have stray bacteria in the mix.

Second, we do not use an airlock so much to keep the wild yeast out as we do the oxygen. Wine yeasts flourish in an oxygen free environment, just as botulism does. Wild yeasts, such as those used to make vinegar, kraut and fermented feed require oxygen to thrive. That is why a properly aging unpasteurized vinegar and crocks are not sealed. The food is kept underwater to prevent spoiling, but to allow oxygen absorbtion in to the brine.

Thirdly, in terms of allowing wild yeast in to a wine, it is not about the wine going bad. Itcs about the specific taste you desire. Each strain will give you a slightly different flavor to them. Some are more potent, while others are mild.


With our chickens, the fermented feed is completely different. It is even a different type of fermentation. There is a learning curve to both winemaking and the feed if you truly want to understand it, but please donct confuse the two processes.

I should never have brought up wine making. I really pooped on the thread with that. ...didn't know it until it was too late. I'm sorry. This has got to be buried, but before that can be done I have to negate the use of the word "fallacies" and yield to the fact that there was a simple misunderstanding.

I never claimed that the initial must is a sterile environment. Experience has shown that many fruits don't carry significant amounts of desirable yeasts, and they are prone to be lost if not controlled.

The airlock is for anaerobic fermentation, yes, but during the secondary stage the must is highly susceptible to contamination. When I say "contamination" I am referring to inoculation by bacteria, not by wild yeasts.

I realize that wild yeast inoculation is not about the wine going bad, but I'll be dogged if I'm going to leave 12 gallons up to for chance, hoping for the right yeast to take over when I can start with a yeast of my selection. If I grew a strain of grapes laden with good yeast then yeah, I would let nature take its course, but that is not the case here.

Again, I apologize for mentioning wine. Believe me, it will not happen again.

 

[Shellz]

Been there, done that. No worries from me.

 

[MEMama3]

I am guessing now that the potential for contamination may run somewhere around one in a million. Taking that into consideration, it is still possible. Ignoring the difference between improbable and impossible is not an option, especially when erring to the side of caution only poses the risk of losing five minutes of your time. If you have a batch that has been fermenting for six months and the chickens stop eating it, I think it is reasonable to suggest taking five minutes to start another bucket and see if they react differently to the new batch instead of immediately removing all other food options. I'm not suggesting a hysterical freak-out, just a bit of caution that could be exercised in less time than it takes to read a couple posts on BYC.

I do trust your wisdom on the subject. I'm really not all that paranoid, probably more obsessive compulsive, if I had to make diagnosis.   
On that note, I will be taking your advice and abandoning my obsessive three jar mess and going with the good ol' bucket. I'm fairly slow sometimes, but eventually I catch up, ...finally realized that they will be getting plenty of well-fermented feed and not a bunch of the fresh stuff from the day before if the container has more than a couple days worth of feed in it. (DUH! I told you I'm slow. Thank you for your patience.)

As you said, it only takes a few minutes to make up a separate batch. In your defense, maybe there is a particular bacteria (good or bad) that it's picked up that alters the taste. It can't hurt to try a redo.

 

[Triple Willow]

I am guessing now that the potential for contamination may run somewhere around one in a million. Taking that into consideration, it is still possible. Ignoring the difference between improbable and impossible is not an option, especially when erring to the side of caution only poses the risk of losing five minutes of your time. If you have a batch that has been fermenting for six months and the chickens stop eating it, I think it is reasonable to suggest taking five minutes to start another bucket and see if they react differently to the new batch instead of immediately removing all other food options. I'm not suggesting a hysterical freak-out, just a bit of caution that could be exercised in less time than it takes to read a couple posts on BYC.

I do trust your wisdom on the subject. I'm really not all that paranoid, probably more obsessive compulsive, if I had to make diagnosis.   
On that note, I will be taking your advice and abandoning my obsessive three jar mess and going with the good ol' bucket. I'm fairly slow sometimes, but eventually I catch up, ...finally realized that they will be getting plenty of well-fermented feed and not a bunch of the fresh stuff from the day before if the container has more than a couple days worth of feed in it. (DUH! I told you I'm slow. Thank you for your patience.)

You can't be that slow if you are a wine maker. I'd probably blow my house up if I tried it! No doubt it would be worse than my running my bucket over regularly. lol

 

[Shellz]

Ha, ha! TW you amuse me so.

My ff is doing better upstairs now, however when I went to stir it, there was a dead fly in it. Must have gotten into the feed & didn't see it when I scooped it out. Will my ff still be ok?