Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[BCMaraniac]

Quote:
I can definitely recommend these dogs, but they are VERY energetic dogs especially when they are younger, but they are so smart you can channel that energy in the appropriate direction. Just FYI.

 

[BCMaraniac]

Quote:
I have thought about getting another Blue Heeler. I got Rose from the pound and she was a year old, so I didn't have to go through the puppy stage. She ended up at the pound because she kept getting loose and going to a nearby daycare center to play with the kids. The owner picked her up twice, but didn't come for her the third time, so she was put up for adoption. Their loss, and my gain!

 

[Beekissed]

'Bee, just raise it up higher. Get a big tall stump that you can brace so it won't move and another stump that's about half as big and make it a step situation. Your birds know what the water is in, it won't be hard to train them to climb up to it. I put my waterers as high as my coop construction will allow. I hate having them drink filthy water.

That's a good idea and I'll sure try it on for size...it's certainly better than keeping light on in the coop at night, though some would think that's a good idea, I do not. I'll let you know how it works out and I can't believe I didn't think of that already as much as my chickens like to get up on things.

My mind sometimes wanders off on its own without the proper supervision...

Hi Ron. Can you tell us more about your poultry business? Like who do you sell your eggs to? How much do you get per dozen? Etc? I suppose you use guardian dogs? What breeds? Hope you don't mind all the questions. I would like to figure out how to make a little money at this.

Do the rest of you try to make any money selling eggs to eat, meat birds, hatching eggs, chicks, layers? If you sell eggs for eating, how much do you get per dozen? What do you guys think about duck eggs? Is there a very good market for them? I want this "hobby" to make some money! lol

Yes, in the past when I had a working flock, I did make a profit. It can be done, though many claim it cannot, I've done it and so I know it's possible. I only charged $2 a doz. because that was all one could get in the area in which I lived but it was still enough to pay for all my feed for the year, new stock and with left over for house money and other projects.

The thing about making money on such a thing is to learn how to stop spending it in the first place. Make a feeder instead of buying one, cull for performance instead of feeding non-layers out of sentimentality, utilize natural feed sources like free range, pumpkins, garden left overs, fruit from the orchard, etc, obtain breeds that pay for themselves by being thrifty on feed and excellent layers, breeds that lay for longer than 2 years at acceptable levels, breeds that can propagate themselves to provide new layers and extra meat for the flock. Pretty feathers and friendly personalities do nothing to save money or make money...they just are.

People call me hard core and that's fine...this isn't any hobby for me. I've always been too poor for hobbies, so keeping chickens was for food and profit from the get go and always has been. I would never have attempted it if I were only breaking even or going in the hole...who can afford all that time to only break even and who can afford to go in the hole on a continual basis. Not me..not ever. Now my kids are grown and I no longer sell eggs nor have a large working flock, but I still cut costs down to practically nothing out of sheer principle just to have healthy eggs and meat in this house. I no longer make a profit, but I sure do break even.

This is one of the reasons I researched fermenting feeds and why I want to beat my head against the wall when people switch to fermenting the feed...and then turn right around and start adding high dollar feeds and supplements to it. That just defeats the purpose of fermenting the feed in the first place!!! It was for cost savings, first and foremost and the rest is just icing on the cake to that. Anyone who can afford the high dollar supplements clearly does not need to cut costs in the first place, so this all puzzles my frugal soul to bits!

So a BA is what? A Barred Australorp or a Buff Australorp, since a BO is a Buff Orpinton I've discovered. Still learning.

Black Australorp...one of my favorite breeds and worthy of feed in any flock.

Duck eggs are great but ducks aren't. They muck up the chicken's feed and the water and cause a lot of waste. On their own they seem doable or if you have a very large area where they eat in one place, swim way away from the food and roosts, etc,. As a hobby don't think you will even ever break even. It ain't gonna happen! In Ron's case he can sell enough eggs and dressed out chickens to maybe make a profit. When I began this adventure I saved all my receipts to see how much it was costing me. It became appaulling how much it was all costing even with recycled stuff for the coops. I eventually didn't want to know. It was embarrassing. I've sold about 5 doz. eggs to the university boys who live next door for $3 each....a drop in the proverbial bucket. I hope to sell some of my "mutts" when they hatch, if anyone is silly enough to want them this time of the year. lol : )

See above post about how to get it down to the wire on expenses. It can be done...one needs to simply stop spending and actually manage the flock instead of just having chickens.

 

[naillikwj82]

jeff sends: We just finished a batch of FF fed slow growing white CX birds obtained from Welp Hatchery. The bean counter report and FF thoughts. Also not sure which thread, but someone was asking for a carcass breakdown. Will peruse other links.

Project of Slow growing white CX from Welp Hatchery
Start date Aug 2, 2013 Finish date Nov 21, 2013 (16 weeks)

# %
120. Clean carcass .746
2.75 Livers & hearts .017
4.5 Necks (for stock) no skin .028
3.375 Fat (for render) .021
5.125 Feet (for stock) .032
25. Entrails & heads (compost) .155
160.75#’s .999%

I suspect this percentage breakdown is a fair representation of CX type birds, but does not truly represent the normal backyard chickens, for the breast meat in other breeds is substantially less. (I would anticipate somewhere in the 65-70 percent rage for live bird to clean carcass weight.
Blood and feathers are not part of calculations.

Average live weight- 7#
Average carcass weight 5#3

COSTS:
30 chicks, straight run @ 2.38 ea. 71.40
763# of 20% feed @.39/# 297.47
2 (6 week pullets to SS) (12.95)
2 (full term pullets retained) (26.79)
329.13
Per pound price includes an earlier 2# cull
$329.13/122#’s = $2.69/1#
Average carcass 5.187# X $2.69 = $13.95 per bird
Notes:
Feed fermented with beer was used for the project with dry feed available on the side. All birds are on pasture. No change in the amount of feed (dry weight) was observed from prior birds done, of CX, or of our capons. All birds appear to average a daily intake of 4 ounces dry weight per day.

From my observations, I don't believe the daily labor required for the use of fermented feed was of significant beneficial use for me to continue the practice. Similarly the addition of beer is unremarkable in the final product also, so that will not be continued.

Feed to weight/ live 28#/7# = 4# feed to 1# of bird
Carcass 28#/5.187 = 5.4# feed to 1# of carcass

 

[hellbender]

Quote Bee"
Yes, in the past when I had a working flock, I did make a profit. It can be done, though many claim it cannot, I've done it and so I know it's possible. I only charged $2 a doz. because that was all one could get in the area in which I lived but it was still enough to pay for all my feed for the year, new stock and with left over for house money and other projects.

The thing about making money on such a thing is to learn how to stop spending it in the first place. Make a feeder instead of buying one, cull for performance instead of feeding non-layers out of sentimentality, utilize natural feed sources like free range, pumpkins, garden left overs, fruit from the orchard, etc, obtain breeds that pay for themselves by being thrifty on feed and excellent layers, breeds that lay for longer than 2 years at acceptable levels, breeds that can propagate themselves to provide new layers and extra meat for the flock. Pretty feathers and friendly personalities do nothing to save money or make money...they just are.

People call me hard core and that's fine...this isn't any hobby for me. I've always been too poor for hobbies, so keeping chickens was for food and profit from the get go and always has been. I would never have attempted it if I were only breaking even or going in the hole...who can afford all that time to only break even and who can afford to go in the hole on a continual basis. Not me..not ever. Now my kids are grown and I no longer sell eggs nor have a large working flock, but I still cut costs down to practically nothing out of sheer principle just to have healthy eggs and meat in this house. I no longer make a profit, but I sure do break even.

This is one of the reasons I researched fermenting feeds and why I want to beat my head against the wall when people switch to fermenting the feed...and then turn right around and start adding high dollar feeds and supplements to it. That just defeats the purpose of fermenting the feed in the first place!!! It was for cost savings, first and foremost and the rest is just icing on the cake to that. Anyone who can afford the high dollar supplements clearly does not need to cut costs in the first place, so this all puzzles my frugal soul to bits!"

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I agree on every point, except pricing eggs. Everyone knows the unreasonable cost of feed increases plus, I charge what the market will bear.

The breeding stock I inherited had had only two infusions of new genetics in over 40 years...I know, hard to believe but it's true. There is really no reason for me to add anything now but I'm going to....I think.

I plan to order 25 Austra-White cockerels from Cackle hatchery in the spring...Raise them up, choose perhaps 2 or 3 to cover some excellent Turkens and either eat or recycle the rest. I want to do this ...just to satisfy my curiosity.

If anyone is weak stomached....stop reading now.


I recycle birds that are spent or are too plentiful for my food needs. I have eaten chicken my whole life and still have it a couple or three times per week.

Recycle...Spent hens, useless cockerels are fasted for three days, slaughtered, ground whole from beak to feet, including feathers, guts and all. Then cooked under high pressure and frozen in 5 gallon buckets. I feed this back to the flock, especially during the winter as well as adding some of it to the dog's feed. Nothing wasted. I'm not prepared or inclined to try to sell these birds because folks want them given to them....Exception...I do give a few birds (dressed) to unfortunate families in the area as well as free eggs.

That's just my way of wasting little.

 

[Beekissed]

Yesterday found one of the Leghorn mutts of the meat roosters had flown out of the pen and was standing up in my coop. Caught him easily, clipped his other wing and hobbled his legs so that he can get around but not really make a great escape anymore. I'm just not having this going on, not in the mood.

Came home today to find one of the new pullets was inside the pen with the roosters, which means she had to fly some great distance to get into the pen...will be clipping their wings tomorrow as well but will not hobble them. Why in the world would a chicken, free for the first time in her life to roam the great outdoors, try to get into an enclosed pen situation with 13 randy roosters???? I still can't figure out how she made it in there but it's a puzzlement, for sure.

There is one rooster in there that I may take out and let run with my flock because he seems to be very uncomfortable amongst all the other roosters. He sits in a corner all the time and doesn't want to move about much. Very fat, very healthy looking, gets up to eat and such but then returns with his head in the corner which makes me think he gets picked on too much and he was born to be mild. I'll check and see if all the lice have been killed off his body before letting him out with my flock but I feel pretty sorry for him and would rather kill him now than put him through any excessive bullying. He looks to be some kind of standard cochin mix, kind of pretty and young enough, I think, that Toby won't think he is any challenge. Maybe he's a capon? Who knows?

I'll post pics when I get the chance and let you all guess at his mix of breed..doesn't have the comb for a cochin but has the lack of tail and the feathered feet.

 

[BCMaraniac]

Yesterday found one of the Leghorn mutts of the meat roosters had flown out of the pen and was standing up in my coop. Caught him easily, clipped his other wing and hobbled his legs so that he can get around but not really make a great escape anymore. I'm just not having this going on, not in the mood.

Came home today to find one of the new pullets was inside the pen with the roosters, which means she had to fly some great distance to get into the pen...will be clipping their wings tomorrow as well but will not hobble them. Why in the world would a chicken, free for the first time in her life to roam the great outdoors, try to get into an enclosed pen situation with 13 randy roosters???? I still can't figure out how she made it in there but it's a puzzlement, for sure.

There is one rooster in there that I may take out and let run with my flock because he seems to be very uncomfortable amongst all the other roosters. He sits in a corner all the time and doesn't want to move about much. Very fat, very healthy looking, gets up to eat and such but then returns with his head in the corner which makes me think he gets picked on too much and he was born to be mild. I'll check and see if all the lice have been killed off his body before letting him out with my flock but I feel pretty sorry for him and would rather kill him now than put him through any excessive bullying. He looks to be some kind of standard cochin mix, kind of pretty and young enough, I think, that Toby won't think he is any challenge. Maybe he's a capon? Who knows?

I'll post pics when I get the chance and let you all guess at his mix of breed..doesn't have the comb for a cochin but has the lack of tail and the feathered feet.

RE: Pullet. Stockholm's? Confinement = Safety??

 

[Beekissed]

RE: Pullet. Stockholm's? Confinement = Safety??

I was thinking the same thing. When I first let them free, both birds hung around the rooster's pen and didn't want to venture out into the yard at all. So, I picked them up and put them up in the coop where they stayed all day long and wouldn't come out. They must have came out today when I left and maybe couldn't find their way back to the coop and so one deposited herself into the only place that looked similar to where she has been. Kinda sad, isn't it?

She'll adjust soon enough...I think she might be the one that tried to sleep in the nest box last night and had to be placed on the roost.

 

[Beekissed]

jeff sends: We just finished a batch of FF fed slow growing white CX birds obtained from Welp Hatchery. The bean counter report and FF thoughts. Also not sure which thread, but someone was asking for a carcass breakdown. Will peruse other links.

Project of Slow growing white CX from Welp Hatchery
Start date Aug 2, 2013 Finish date Nov 21, 2013 (16 weeks)

# %
120. Clean carcass .746
2.75 Livers & hearts .017
4.5 Necks (for stock) no skin .028
3.375 Fat (for render) .021
5.125 Feet (for stock) .032
25. Entrails & heads (compost) .155
160.75#’s .999%

I suspect this percentage breakdown is a fair representation of CX type birds, but does not truly represent the normal backyard chickens, for the breast meat in other breeds is substantially less. (I would anticipate somewhere in the 65-70 percent rage for live bird to clean carcass weight.
Blood and feathers are not part of calculations.

Average live weight- 7#
Average carcass weight 5#3

COSTS:
30 chicks, straight run @ 2.38 ea. 71.40
763# of 20% feed @.39/# 297.47
2 (6 week pullets to SS) (12.95)
2 (full term pullets retained) (26.79)
329.13
Per pound price includes an earlier 2# cull
$329.13/122#’s = $2.69/1#
Average carcass 5.187# X $2.69 = $13.95 per bird
Notes:
Feed fermented with beer was used for the project with dry feed available on the side. All birds are on pasture. No change in the amount of feed (dry weight) was observed from prior birds done, of CX, or of our capons. All birds appear to average a daily intake of 4 ounces dry weight per day.

From my observations, I don't believe the daily labor required for the use of fermented feed was of significant beneficial use for me to continue the practice. Similarly the addition of beer is unremarkable in the final product also, so that will not be continued.

Feed to weight/ live 28#/7# = 4# feed to 1# of bird
Carcass 28#/5.187 = 5.4# feed to 1# of carcass

I'm confused as to why FF was used at all if dry feed was used as well. The results can't have much to do with the feed efficacy of FF at that point if it was just one portion of the total daily ration given. Now, if one group were fed FF and the other dry and then costs and wt comparisons were done, I could see where this evaluation would have some bearing on if the FF is worth doing or not, but it wasn't. Conversely, since dry feed was given in equal amounts, one could say that the dry feed was not worthy of continuing because it didn't change the outcome or results.

 

[naillikwj82]

Beekissed wrote-
I'm confused as to why FF was used at all if dry feed was used as well. The results can't have much to do with the feed efficacy of FF at that point if it was just one portion of the total daily ration given. Now, if one group were fed FF and the other dry and then costs and wt comparisons were done, I could see where this evaluation would have some bearing on if the FF is worth doing or not, but it wasn't. Conversely, since dry feed was given in equal amounts, one could say that the dry feed was not worthy of continuing because it didn't change the outcome or results.

Reply- The birds were given about 2 to 2 1/2 gallons of fermented feed every afternoon and that was indeed their feed of choice. They would see me coming with the bucket, and gather round for it, I would fill a 4 foot long rain gutter trough. In a small side feeder there was typically about 2 pounds of the 20% protein grower ration, and it seemed this rarely was eaten down very much. I used the 20% grower ration in the FF bucket, along with wheat and cracked corn. The liquid used was a 50/50 mix of beer/water. (our son is a microbrewer) The fermenting was always an active culture and smelled like raising bread.
We have done prior batches with just pasture, and 20% protein grower ration with better weight gain, with exception to one bad batch of cocci.
jeff