Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Triple Willow]

They just stay outside.  I haven't looked for the new nesting areas for the recent additions, but our two initial rabbits found and built their above-ground burrow underneath our oleander trees, at a corner where the brick fence meets the end of a plaster bench near our beehive fireplace.  When I go outside, all of the flock, plus the four smaller of the seven rabbits always come up to greet me.  These smaller ones are easily picked up and enjoy being held.  The first three were freebies from Craig's List and I know two of them were traumatized by unruly, bratty children.  It's no surprise they are jumpy.

They really enjoy being out there munching on the huge plot of bermuda grass all the time.  They tend to turn their noses up, literally, whenever I put the dried timothy hay out for them.  The chickens and turkeys eat it before the rabbits even show interest anymore.  I toss a bowl of pellets out a couple times a week, but otherwise, they just eat the grass and whatever food scraps go out to the animals.

Do you have pics of how you keep your rabbits? Sounds nice!

 

[Beekissed]

They just stay outside. I haven't looked for the new nesting areas for the recent additions, but our two initial rabbits found and built their above-ground burrow underneath our oleander trees, at a corner where the brick fence meets the end of a plaster bench near our beehive fireplace. When I go outside, all of the flock, plus the four smaller of the seven rabbits always come up to greet me. These smaller ones are easily picked up and enjoy being held. The first three were freebies from Craig's List and I know two of them were traumatized by unruly, bratty children. It's no surprise they are jumpy.

They really enjoy being out there munching on the huge plot of bermuda grass all the time. They tend to turn their noses up, literally, whenever I put the dried timothy hay out for them. The chickens and turkeys eat it before the rabbits even show interest anymore. I toss a bowl of pellets out a couple times a week, but otherwise, they just eat the grass and whatever food scraps go out to the animals.

I'd love to do that here but I'm surrounded by woods and I'm thinking they would stray too far out of the dog's territory for their nesting and such. Then my cat would kill and eat the kits. I could try to train him around them if I got to them first but that would be a neat experiment! Do you eat the offspring? Have you lost any to predation? Did you have to keep them contained for awhile until they got used to coming to you for food? How often do they breed and reproduce in that kind of setting? What about winter living?

 

[Demosthine]

Do you have pics of how you keep your rabbits? Sounds nice!

Umm, just some photos of my large backyard. I don't have cages or anything like that for them. They drink from the poultry nipples that I connected directly to my water main. I'll see if I can get some photos to post tonight when I feed them. It's quite the sight, surrounding the food dish. Chicken butt, chicken butt, rabbit butt, chicken butt, two rabbits butts... Ok, now where did that turkey go? Oops, baby rabbit jumped in to the food...

Here's one section of our yard, once the summer grass went dormant and I was trying to seed with winter grass. The chickens and turkeys kept sneaking out, but after six weeks, I thought it was rooted enough. I was wrong. They cleared all of the new grass sprouts within a week. I have to make an actual secure run for them before I try again. The rod-iron fencing on the left side leads to the pool area, which is where the rabbits prefer nesting. The neighbor on that side waters a grass lawn, so those oleanders have a much better water source and are significantly more lush. It also stays cooler during summer because the sun never directly hits that fence.

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This is Stu, our first rabbit. We were told it was a buck, but as soon as we let the supposed doe free, we quickly found out both people were wrong on the sex. Stu is the doe and Mink is the buck. Oops!

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Here, she was in drinking from the poultry nipples you see in the background. Turns out, she was also building a nest in the chicken coop's nesting box for her first litter.

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I posted this one after I flood irrigated my yard during the first part of summer. You can see the oleander bushes running the entire length of the back fence, plus the majority of both side fences. I think it comes out to over 100 linear feet. So far, all of the animals have left the bushes alone in terms of eating them, so we've had no deaths. Some people are paranoid of having anything poisonous available, but ours have proven that nature knows what they should and should not eat.

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Here's a side shot of the playground and grass area. These were shortly after we moved in and hadn't had chickens very long. By the end of that summer, the grass was far more green and lush. But you can see where the rabbits love hiding at the end of both slides. Underneath the yellow monkey bars, there is a large 4'x6' sandbox for my girls to play in. It also doubles as a dirt bath for the flock. The rabbits also love to dig and burrow there, even though it doesn't go anywhere. There's about 18" of wood forming a frame around the sandbox, so they can't dig out.

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I'd love to do that here but I'm surrounded by woods and I'm thinking they would stray too far out of the dog's territory for their nesting and such. Then my cat would kill and eat the kits. I could try to train him around them if I got to them first but that would be a neat experiment! Do you eat the offspring? Have you lost any to predation? Did you have to keep them contained for awhile until they got used to coming to you for food? How often do they breed and reproduce in that kind of setting? What about winter living?

Unfortunately, it isn't for everyone. Because we have that tall block fence surrounding our entire yard, it's much more feasible. There are two-foot cement footings underneath the entire fence, so they can't dig underneath it, either. Yes, we are raising the offspring for meat, but they are mostly too young to be breeding yet. The one doe had a single litter, but we think she ate five of the eight kits. I had to cull one because of it's injuries and the other two have grown up nicely. When I went to introduce the kits to free ranging, the doe savagely attacked one of them, basically ziplining all the way around it's neck. I was right there and able to separate them, then tend to the injury, so he lived and recovered great. But that tipped me off on the doe possibly being an eater. I think she's had another litter, but I can find no trace of the kits. While we're off for my wife's surgery this week, she's being dispatched and becoming dinner. I won't tolerate that type of parenting skills.

The only time we've caged any of them was right after we found the partially eaten kits and I thought it was a predator. I brought the doe and two surviving kits inside for a few weeks, but ended up letting the doe out to free-range about two weeks later. The kits spent the next six weeks in my brooder and were only recently let out to free-range again. For some reason, this second time those two plus the two additional ones I bought were immediately accepted and we've had no problems fighting. But because of how they free range, there isn't any "coming to us for food." I put the bowl of pellets out periodically where they can find it, but I move it around so they don't get use to a routine. I do the same thing for my chickens and turkeys. I try to keep them as natural and wild as possible, because that's how nature intended. Varying the routine every day encourages their foraging, plus I skip a day of feeding periodically. During summer, I quite likely could go completely without feeding and they'd still thrive. I'm adding some bush willow, comfry and possibly apple ice plants to my yard this spring, so they'll have an even better selection.

Again, because they are so young, I'm not actively breeding. For now, if I get some litters, absolutely great. If not, it's ok because I'd like them a little older first. When I cull this doe this week, the remaining does will be about 8-weeks old for two of them and 14-weeks old for one. Living in a very different environment than you, I have the opposite problems with weather. The bucks will temporarily become sterile in temperatures above 85*, so I wouldn't breed at all during summer unless I keep them inside. I haven't decided on that yet. I'm going to let them free-breed during the ideal weather, though. Winter is not a problem at all. They grow in the thicker coats and the white doe grew in the rusty colored markings similar to a snow hare. To the untrained eye, she just looks dirty, though.

Summer went extremely well for the ones we had last year. Because of my very extensive shade for all the animals, plus the grass yard, I only had one death at all from the heat. The Ameraucana was found dead when i came home from work. They seem to be the absolute least heat tolerant of my flock from day one, so it didn't surprise me at all. It was about 117* that day, too. I was quite surprised the other three Ameraucanas survived the heat, to be honest. They showed heat distress a full 10*-15* sooner than the other breeds. Hopefully, they'll be better acclimated this coming year. I hear that summer rabbits will have much longer, floppy ears compared to winter rabbits.

The grass yard is probably the major key to my success. I did a temperature check as an experiment last year and the ambient temperature was 117* that day. In my front yard, standing in the gravel, it was 125*. Out back, though, the ambient temperature dropped to around 109* just standing in the sun. When I laid the thermometer in the sunny grass, the temperature went down to around 97*, but it was even cooler in the shaded grass at 88*! Since the chickens and turkeys cool themselves through their feet, the grass being 20*-30* cooler than the air was a huge advantage. I would watch them in the dead of summer on a sunny day, laying on the grass. Meanwhile, many others in my area were still losing their flocks despite putting out frozen water bottles, box fans with misters attached, and all sorts of other emergency precautions. Of course, days where I watered had even more dramatic temperature differences.


Whew, hope that answers everything! I guess I'm a bit proud of my setup. Some of it was just how the previous owners had the yard set up, like the oleanders, but the rest I did just to give them an environment as natural as possible.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

I'm always just concerned when rabbits eat chicken feed, if it's a flock raiser or layer pellets... It's pretty high in fat, protein and calcium for them, and I've seen enough bladder sludge in my day on regular rabbit pellets that have half the calcium of chicken feed... Plus if they get too fat they can't breed... It just leads to bad organ issues. Of course I couldn't free-range my rabbits all the time even if I wanted to, because of how soggy my back yard is. You're pretty lucky to have the yard fenced in the way you do so you can even try it!

 

[Triple Willow]

@Demosthine... looks like a good setup that's working for you. I have several wild rabbits around here. I noticed in the snow where one had hopped around one of the chicken coops the other day. I guess it was looking for something to eat. The song birds have been busy trying to find something to eat too. I have been tossing them some cracked corn.

 

[Demosthine]

@ChocolateMouse , that's always a concern if you are raising in cages. But since we free-range, I think it's drastically different. The fermented feed is such a small portion of their daily intake, I'm not concerned about it at all. I go through an estimated six to eight cups of fermented feed that my sixteen chickens, one turkey and now seven rabbits share. The rest is from foraging. To compare, though, I just pulled up the guaranteed analysis of both my feeds. You're right, the fat is double and fiber is significantly lower in the chicken feed, but the rest are nicely balanced. Well, ok, except the salt, but that's why there's a mineral lick available for them at all times. Since my rabbits are constantly running and playing, I am very ok with the fat levels. Mine show no signs of obesity. They have an endless source of fiber in the grass and available hay, too.

Purina Mills Rabbit Complete Big Sky Chick Start/Grow
Crude Protein, Min. 16.0% 18.0%
Crude Fat, Min. 1.50% 3.2%
Crude Fiber, Max. 20.00% 5.0%
Calcium, Min.-Max. 0.60-1.10% 1.00-1.10%
Phosphorus, Min. 0.40% 0.55%
Salt, Min.-Max. 0.50-1.00% 0.20-0.25%​

Like you mentioned, though, I'm extremely lucky I can keep mine the way I do. My entire husbandry would be so drastically different if I was keeping them in cages! It's one of the differences and ideas that Boyd Craven Jr. talks about in his rabbitry books, especially the first titled Beyond the Pellet.

 

[perchie.girl]

They just stay outside. I haven't looked for the new nesting areas for the recent additions, but our two initial rabbits found and built their above-ground burrow underneath our oleander trees, at a corner where the brick fence meets the end of a plaster bench near our beehive fireplace. When I go outside, all of the flock, plus the four smaller of the seven rabbits always come up to greet me. These smaller ones are easily picked up and enjoy being held. The first three were freebies from Craig's List and I know two of them were traumatized by unruly, bratty children. It's no surprise they are jumpy.

They really enjoy being out there munching on the huge plot of bermuda grass all the time. They tend to turn their noses up, literally, whenever I put the dried timothy hay out for them. The chickens and turkeys eat it before the rabbits even show interest anymore. I toss a bowl of pellets out a couple times a week, but otherwise, they just eat the grass and whatever food scraps go out to the animals.

My grandpa Dixon raised rabbits like this.... They fenced off a place for a rabbit warren dug down about three feet so they couldnt dig out. Then erected shelters for the heat of the day and water tubs. but eventually all the rabbits would disappear during the heat of the day. All you could see were the holes for their dens. Bring up the feed or alfalfa and they would come running.

The fence kept the canines out and the rabbits did a good job of protecting themselves from the flying predators by disappearing down their holes. Of course like chickens they would denude their enclosure.

deb

 

[LindaB220]

Here you go...

(sharpe knife helps)

TW, this is as clear a diagram for cutting a chicken as I have ever seen. I probably haven't cut up a dozen chickens in 10 years. This explains why I was having so much trouble. Thank you a bunch

 

[Triple Willow]

TW, this is as clear a diagram for cutting a chicken as I have ever seen.  I probably  haven't  cut up a dozen chickens in 10 years.  This explains why I was having so much trouble.   Thank you a bunch 

You're welcome but I can't take any credit. I learned a little bit on that video too. I had never noticed how perfectly a chicken is marked for cutting. I suppose God knew we would forget how to do it someday. lol It would have been perfect if the guy had just cut out the "pulley bone"! Everybody seems to have forgot about that wonderful little piece. Yum!!! I think there is a YouTube video for everything. HA!

 

[LindaB220]

Oh my goodness!! Now, that's where I want to troll for good food...through a CAFO house and pick up the dying and crippled ones to take home and feed my family.

Trying to get this out of my mind..... Then he cooked it in the scalding pot~3 minutes!! "Don't hit that chicken, kids!!! That's cruel!!!"

I'm appalled.

Bahahahahaha