Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[hyelaw]

yeah, yeast is not a bad thing, mold is.

 

[wlantry]

Yes, the argument seems to be there's some yeast there, which (the speakers assert) can lead to alcohol. It's true that sometimes my mix turns a little yeasty. Never thought much about it. Should I be doing something to disfavor the yeast, and promote the lacto?

 

[hyelaw]

Yes, the argument seems to be there's some yeast there, which (the speakers assert) can lead to alcohol. It's true that sometimes my mix turns a little yeasty. Never thought much about it. Should I be doing something to disfavor the yeast, and promote the lacto?

Well, as I said before I haven't attempted fermented feed yet, but I do other forms of brewing and fermentation. The yeast is one of the things that makes the process work, but there are even trace amounts at that. So, if you are concerned about getting a high alcohol level (which I doubt is even possible depending on what is in your feed), try not fermenting it as long, or cover it so it limits the oxygen. But I wouldn't use something airtight because the lid might pop off, or worst case, it could explode, depending on what type of container you are using.

Corn being in the feed would raise the possibility of higher alcohol because of the sugar. And how long do you ferment? 2-3 days? I doubt the alcohol level would be anything to be concerned about. Heat is another thing that I think would raise any alcohol, so try keeping it in a cooler environment, like a basement?

I would think of it more along the lines of a sourdough starter, than a mash for booze.

 

[Goosegrrl]

I stir in. And I don't keep any water above the feed... in the bucket it is a loose mush consistency and the fine layer of white forms directly upon the mash.
To get it to the thick oatmeal consistency I prefer to feed I simply use my hand to stir in some crumble.

Also, I have my bin of FF out in the FL heat. It gets direct sun part of the day, and this doesn't seem to deter or stop fermentation at all. I figure whatever wild local yeasts and lacto-bacteria that will take the heat win out over the more fragile ones and it's no big deal. I hit it with a dose of unfiltered vinegar or maybe a splash of buttermilk once every week or two, just because? But I make my own vinegar and buttermilk so it's no big deal for me as far as added cost IMO.

I use crumbles, alfalfa pellets, and a mix of seed that contains cracked(and a few whole pieces) of corn, milo, millet, wheat, safflower, and BOSS. The ratio I use is approx. 4-1-1. plus a bit more dry crumble to tighten the mix right before I feed.

I never completely empty the bin. I simply add more feed and water to maintain the loose mush texture as I remove what I feed.

 

[hyelaw]

I hit it with a dose of unfiltered vinegar or maybe a splash of buttermilk once every week or two, just because? But I make my own vinegar and buttermilk so it's no big deal for me as far as added cost IMO.

So, in that case it's more like a barrel of fermenting pickles! I brew water kefir, and once I start the FF, I'm going to throw in some of that.

I have given it to my birds, but I have no idea if they are drinking it or not. It usually ends up dirty and I toss it out. They do get ACV in their water though.

Making my own vinegar, on my list of many things I want to do!

 

[Goosegrrl]

Exactly.
But because it's grains it ends up smelling a bit sour-bready. Much like a sourdough starter, but not like flour. Earthier.

Kefir would be great. I haven't made any in a while... gave away a ton of grains and then lost by own batch.
Heck... I imagine it would be pretty good for the fowl to add even excess kefir grains to the feed when you have them. If they are happy they tend to really multiple IME. I do know that some people eat some of their excess grains.

Making your own vinegar is super easy if you start with a bottle of unflitered 'with the mother' vinegar.

 

[wlantry]

if you are concerned about getting a high alcohol level (which I doubt is even possible depending on what is in your feed), try not fermenting it as long, or cover it so it limits the oxygen. But I wouldn't use something airtight because the lid might pop off, or worst case, it could explode, depending on what type of container you are using.

Corn being in the feed would raise the possibility of higher alcohol because of the sugar. And how long do you ferment? 2-3 days? I doubt the alcohol level would be anything to be concerned about. Heat is another thing that I think would raise any alcohol, so try keeping it in a cooler environment, like a basement?

I would think of it more along the lines of a sourdough starter, than a mash for booze.

Thanks. Not much of that is practical, in my world. I'm in the MidAtlantic, so summers are warm. Odds of my wife allowing me to ferment feed in the newly finished basement are approximately zero percent...

The fermenting happens in a shed beside the coop. I use pellets or crumbles, so I have no control over the percentage of corn. How long do I ferment? It's a continuous cycle: I scoop out enough to feed the chickens for the day, stir the five gallon bucket well, put about that much back in, and add some water. About every ten days I stop adding back in, and do that until the bucket is about 10% full, then I restart the whole process. I do keep about an inch or two of water above the level of feed, just because I'm irrational. And it seems to reduce the numbers of those tiny fruit-fly looking critters. What are those things? I cover it all very loosely with a clear piece of plastic, and close the shed doors so it doesn't get direct sunlight.

I do worry I'm doing something wrong, as I'd hate to poison the birds. But so far, they seem to be thriving...

 

[hyelaw]

Exactly.
But because it's grains it ends up smelling a bit sour-bready. Much like a sourdough starter, but not like flour. Earthier.

Kefir would be great. I haven't made any in a while... gave away a ton of grains and then lost by own batch.
Heck... I imagine it would be pretty good for the fowl to add even excess kefir grains to the feed when you have them. If they are happy they tend to really multiple IME. I do know that some people eat some of their excess grains.

Making your own vinegar is super easy if you start with a bottle of unflitered 'with the mother' vinegar.

Yes, I do have an abundance. I haven't eaten them myself either... I almost gave some away and separated them out, but then she never got in touch with me! So now I have 2 batches going... I may as well toss them back together.

Yes, I was thinking about adding a tablespoon or so of the grains and some of the brewed kefir to the FF. I tried to make them oatmeal when they were keets and had lukewarm results, maybe they hated it, maybe I didn't try hard enough. Another thing on my to do list...

So, I do buy Bragg's ACV and other brands with the mother still in it, is that mother okay to use? It just doesn't seem like much. I think I heard a leftover bottle of wine sitting open can create one too.

 

[hyelaw]

Thanks. Not much of that is practical, in my world. I'm in the MidAtlantic, so summers are warm. Odds of my wife allowing me to ferment feed in the newly finished basement are approximately zero percent...

The fermenting happens in a shed beside the coop. I use pellets or crumbles, so I have no control over the percentage of corn. How long do I ferment? It's a continuous cycle: I scoop out enough to feed the chickens for the day, stir the five gallon bucket well, put about that much back in, and add some water. About every ten days I stop adding back in, and do that until the bucket is about 10% full, then I restart the whole process. I do keep about an inch or two of water above the level of feed, just because I'm irrational. And it seems to reduce the numbers of those tiny fruit-fly looking critters. What are those things? I cover it all very loosely with a clear piece of plastic, and close the shed doors so it doesn't get direct sunlight.

I do worry I'm doing something wrong, as I'd hate to poison the birds. But so far, they seem to be thriving...

So, I'm not sure where you got your info from to start it, and there are too many pages on this thread for me to read them all right now, but this is the one I read recently and it sounds good. http://www.scratchandpeck.com/feed-and-fines-maximizing-the-value-with-fermented-feed/

I'm not sure why Goosegrrl said she doesn't cover hers with water. I would cover it like you do. As for the fruit flies, yes they are annoying! Part of me thinks they might be extra protein in the feed though! I really have no idea if that would be good or bad though. I'm probably going to start mine in my kitchen, unless it starts to smell too strong.

Your process doesn't sound bad to me. And like you said, they seem to be thriving, so you must be doing something right!

I wouldn't worry about alcohol content unless you start to smell it, or yeasty odor. And if it starts to get an unusually foul odor, I wouldn't feed it to them. That would probably be mold or a bad bacteria. You could try what Goosegrrl does and add a splash of vinegar.

 

[Goosegrrl]

Bragg's is fine, but a less expensive option is the 'with the mother' vinegar sold at walmart (brand escapes me, but it's the standard variety sold pretty much everywhere)and some other stores, right next to the regular apple cider vinegar, much cheaper than Bragg's.

You can either add some of the vinegar with the mother to already brewed ACV (I like to add a spoon of frozen apple juice to it as well to give it a bit of a sugars kick)and let it colonize, or to apple juice... even the cheap frozen kind. Adding it to apple juice takes a bit longer of course.


--As to why I don't bother covering mine with water. Well, there were lots of posts earlier in this thread from people who also didn't, and said it wasn't necessary. And if I make it to a consistency where it is covered by water it's too loose to be thickened to where my birds prefer it the most without adding too much(IMO) dry crumbles. They don't really like it soupy. Also, I don't want to mess with straining it to get it to a better consistency.