Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Beekissed]

Oh you let the water absorb away at the top? I was thinking I had to keep it under water so I would keep adding water. Then it just would not drain when I wanted to use it. Hmm....

Yep...not necessary to keep it constantly submersed in water. I do that when I add more mash/feed/grain and by morning it is pretty much absorbed and, if it's chick starter, it will have a peanut butter or mortar consistency, which is easy to dip out and dispense.

The mash and whole grains comes out looking like meal and will drain off better because it doesn't absorb all the liquid like the pellets or crumbles.

The reason I submerge the feed is to get all the cultured liquid from the bottom bucket into all areas of the feed so that the fermentation process is happening evenly throughout the mass. I also give it a good stir or two to make sure the feed is all moistened and integrated into the already fermented feeds. This way I have some grains/feed that has had more fermentation, some that has had less...that is the benefit from keeping a constant and ongoing mash of the FF going instead of starting out fresh each time. Makes all the newly added feed ferment more quickly and also adds new food for the active yeast cultures to feed upon.

 

[JulieNKC]

Thanks everyone! I was having a hard time figuring out how much on the vinegar. I kept reading how acid it ended up and couldn't quit get the amount of starting ACV. As far as the pellets not draining perfectly I am not concerned. I only have ducks and geese at this time and they should be fine with the extra liquid I am thinking. I could always try a finer sieve or cheesecloth if its really hard to strain out. And if its still a pain I could always get some whole grains going in the future.

Anyone here use the ff for laying ducks? I am curious on how they do on it. I will probably only be supplementing their dry feed with this at least for awhile but if this fixes their runny and sometimes stinky poo that would be great. I also will be happy if it cuts how much they need.

I really like the idea the ff and I hope I can get my setup going asap...first for the ducks and geese then for future quail. I noticed some in this thread use the ff for quail. I will probably be getting some quail here and they will be getting the ff as the only feed if I can mange it. First though for my ducks...

I'm going to be trying it with mine here soon. Right now they get gamebird grower/scratch so I plan on fermenting that, and picking up some whole oats to try sprouting to feed also. I have a few geese and call ducks, I think it will work great with the ducks. Save them the trouble of trying to make soup out of their food themselves hopefully. I've got a small batch going now to try out on my little d'uccles first, if that goes well I'll set something up bigger for everyone.

 

[1655ot]

I've been feeding FF for about a month now and my birds love it! Last week I started mixing 50/50 scratch and layer crumbles for easier drainage and to cut cost. But now my layers have almost stopped laying. I read somewhere in this thread that some people were fermenting scratch for layers and had no production loss. Is the scratch my problem? I have eleven 25 week old barred rocks and they started laying 7/26/12. But the most eggs I've gotten is 5 in a day. Doesn't seem like all are laying yet. I got 2 eggs yesterday and 0 today. Any ideas greatly appreciated.

 

[Beekissed]

During these hottest months of the year, there is a natural slow down in production. Add to that, BRs are a slower to mature breed and you have some that haven't even started. It's likely just coincidence that they have slowed down from their already low production rate at this time of the year and not so much to do with the FF.

Just give it time and things will pick up.

 

[armorfirelady]

Mine never bubbles but the water is a grayish white in color & the feed has a nice sweet smell. I added some more ACV with mother tonight & stirred everything up again. I am curious if I will see bubbles tomorrow or not

 

[Christie Rhae]

Quote: Hmmm maybe I will try it that way. I did have the water all absorb couple times and was able to scoop the mash off the top. It was much more workable that way. But for some reason I thought that if it was not covered in a little water it would spoil.

 

[1655ot]

Bee,
I'll try to be patient.
I've got some hatchery RIR and some BCM that I'm waiting on too.
Thanks.

 

[Jeanette56]

I'm so glad you reminded me/us of this idea! I need some new feeders and this would probably be more economical for my set up.
Thanks!

Nice! I made my own trough style feeders out of plastic gutter with end caps. I made 3 of them out of 1 ten foot piece of it.

 

[Paul Ewing]

This is a reveiw I wrote of my FF experiment in May and June:

I tried this with 32 of my last 120 CX broilers. We are on week 7 of the growout and I have some observations. I normally use 22% chick starter on my birds and feed it through 8 weeks as standard. For the fermented feed test, I initially just fermented the chick starter. After a week I started adding in whole grains to the fermentation (whole milo, wheat, oats, rolled barley, rolled oats, & cut corn). Currently the ratio is 1/3 chick starter and 2/3 grain mix. The dry feed is on a free feed while the fermented feed is on twice a day feeding based on cleanup.

1) Doing the fermented feed takes about 5 minutes longer each day than dry crumbles.

2) Feed consumption for the ones on fermented is running 1/2 to 2/3 the consumption of the dry feed. I will probably pass on the milo next time because they leave it to the very end and won't eat it unless I let the feeder go empty for a bit.

3) Water consumption is way less than the dry feed group. This is probably at least partially because of the water in the fermented feed. During the brooding stage, the time refilling water for the dry feed chicks canceled out the extra time feeding the fermented feed.

4) Brooder condition was much much better. I use box brooders and they can get pretty nasty at about week 2 to 3. Normally I try to get them out at 3 weeks, but this batch was in till a bit over 4 weeks because of rain storms when I would normally have put them out. This meant that the brooders got really nasty and needed new shavings added morning and afternoon. On the fermented feed group, I just had to sprinkle a few new shavings on a couple times. Mostly just a good mix of the shavings was enough to keep it clean. That is a huge plus! I wouldn't say the poop doesn't stink, but it is much more manageable than standard Cornish Cross poop. It was about like brooding a batch of Barred Rocks or RIRs. Brooder death loss was minimal even with the extended time in the brooder. I lost one in the first week.

5) The birds on the fermented feed are much more active I have never had to put tops on my meat bird brooders, but by half way through the second week, they were trying to get up and set on the 2 foot sides. by three weeks, they were a real pain to keep in since they would fly up every time I went in to feed them. I have them in an 8x8 hoop coop on pasture currently that I had rigged up with roost bars at three feet when I had layers in it. I went out yesterday and there were some on the bars and some trying to fly up.

6) Downside and it could be a big one for many. The growth is noticeably slower. I need to go out a weigh them verses the normal feed group, but it is obvious the ones on fermented feed are smaller. I would say the main group will be ready on schedule next week (8 weeks) but I would say the fermented feed group will need at least 10 weeks maybe 11 to finish out. I normally shoot for an average 4 pound dressed bird for comparison.

Conclusion: I am very tempted to try a larger fermented feed experiment on the next batch. The much more pleasant brooding experience weighs heavily with me and if the total feed consumption isn't too bad for the extra couple weeks, I can live with the slower growout. I just need to plan for it.

-------------------------------------------------------

Update: I ended up holding the dry feed group till 9 weeks because of stuff coming up and lack of time to get to the processor. That was a big problem since it was getting hot in Texas in late June. I ended up losing several of the dry feed birds to the heat. I didn't lose any of the FF goup even though they went to 11 weeks. The combined death loss to the extra time in the messy brooder of the dry feed birds and the heat on the dry feed birds more than wiped out any advantage to the better growth rate they had. I only lost one FF bird and it was a runt in week one.

The FF birds did so much better in the heat and the brooder house conditions were SO much cleaner that I am probably switching for good. It is too hot to run broilers in July and August (100-112 every day) here in North Texas so I am just now starting again. I have 200 CX coming from Welp (best hatchery I have found for them) Friday and will run the whole batch on FF. I will keep much better feed consumption and growth records on this batch.

 

[Beekissed]

WOW!!! What a comprehensive evaluation of the differences in the feeds! I would rather hear something broken down like this than all the weights, measurements and costs...this is something one can get their mind around and were my original thoughts of the prospective outcome for feeding the FF. I figured the comparative health of the birds and the reduced feed consumption would more than outweigh the longer grow out time and would also give more flavor to the meats, as older birds naturally have more flavor. It would also improve mortality rates and decrease of stress during hot temps.

Many people who are against longer grow out times always state that it cuts the profits because of the need of feeding for those few extra weeks, so they try to feed all they can and get the birds as big as possible in a shorter time. When you stand back and look at it, it's six of one, half dozen of the other. More feed in less time~ or less feed for a longer time. It would appear to be the same except for the additional savings of low mortality rate and less bedding used.

One could argue that these benefits are minimal but they are also not factoring in that these birds are obviously more healthy...this filters down to the consumer. The one that eats these healthier birds is normally your family if you aren't doing this for market sales. FF is perfect for the backyard grower and I would venture to say that it also is perfect for the market grower as well...any savings helps with total profit.

An added benefit that I also can note is that it also decreases the need to butcher as soon as possible due to the bird's failing health. I've read many posts on this forum where folks had to butcher quickly before anymore birds died, had leg issues, had developed sores, etc. They post the health problems and someone replies that they should go ahead and process because they are "so close to the age of processing anyway." What a way to determine the need for processing your meats...hurry and kill them before they die all by themselves!