Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[smyers32]

I'm as far as you can get from an OT, but I do have a fair knowledge of microbes. I would really hesitate to say whether those lactobacilli are active. The fact that they're dehydrated makes me suspicious, but it would be hard to say without knowing what kind of tempuratures they've been exposed to.
Also, I can't think of any reason why you can't just throw the ACV right on in there with the yeast started FF.

 

[PeepsCA]

Thanks smeyers, that makes sense. The reason I questioned them being active is that the probiotics (Probios) that I buy for my animals are in powdered form... and I assume those are dehydrated too?

 

[smyers32]

Anytime I've seen probios as a supplement it always has a cell count and says "viable cells" I generally assume if it doesn't specifically say "viable" then they're dead and thus useless. Maybe it's just the cynic in me!
At the same time though, I'm not sure why they would put dead bacteria in the feed, so maybe they are active cultures, who knows?
I bet if you called the manufacturer, they would tell you.

 

[galanie]

I keep thinking I must be imagining things.  In fact, I probably ought to go back and look at any pictures I might have.

With Andalusians, each time they molt out, they get a little less striking.

I've been feeding the ff for a couple months now and my girls are all molting.  Some have lots of new feathers and as I look at them every day, there are certain ones that are a couple of years old that were very very nice in their pullet year.  There's one that molted back after  her first molt and she was just as nice as her pullet year.  The next molt however, she faded quite a bit.  She's growing new feathers in now and unless I'm imagining it, she's almost as nice as she was before!  I'm shocked and almost totally in disbelief.  There's another hen that was never very lacy looking but she had incredible evenness of color.  This is her second molt and she's coming in with some pretty  nice lacing! 

Like I said... hard to believe!  I don't know what it would be if not the ff.  Though I don't know how that could affect coloring.

I noticed on the hen in my avatar the same thing. Last year her lacing wasn't all that great. But she's molting and the new ones are very nicely laced! I never thought to attribute it to FF (duh) and was just in awe that they look as good as they do.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Just in general - on the topic of feed - I saw this post by someone in a group I'm subscribed to. I have sent her a message to see if this publication has an on-line version or if she will scan it for me so I can verify the source. I decided to post it here as I believe most of you are interested in good nutrition for your animals.

Just when I thought I was aware of all the REALLY STUPID things that people have done with our food source, I read this. I thought I'd heard it all but.... check this out:
******************************************************

Quote from group:
Quote:

http://www.ag-choice.com/solution.html

It's really true...it's on their website...

 

[galanie]

[COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]Can someone please explain exactly why baker's yeast shouldn't be used in FF? Obviously it does not have the exact same benefits as FF with the UP/ACV w/Mother in it, but I[/SIZE][/COLOR] [SIZE=10.5pt][COLOR=4B0082]was under the impression that any type of ferment will increase the protein and nutrient availability as well as provide beneficial bacteria, enzymes and microbes[/COLOR]. [/SIZE][COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]Does anyone know if the baker’s yeast establishes an entirely different type of ferment, with [/SIZE]drastically [SIZE=10.5pt] different beneficials, nutrients etc?[/SIZE][/COLOR]​

[COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]The reason I am asking for better clarification is because I used some really old, expired bread machine yeast to get my FF started for my birds. I'm using about a 50/50 mix of 24% protein game bird pellets and scratch grains (cracked corn, wheat and milo), with an occasional few handfuls of sweet feed mixed in... I started it almost 3 wks ago and my batch is doing fine so far. With the bread machine yeast being 6+ yrs past it's expiration date I'm not all that convinced it was even active enough to do anything (good, bad or otherwise) and that my mix didn't just pull in wild yeast from the air and also utilize the natural yeasts off of the feeds themselves.[/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]I have not added any more yeast to it since that first day, and I have not been using any UP/ACV in my mix (just ended up finally getting some on Friday but have not added any yet).[/SIZE] [SIZE=10.5pt]My FF mix has a nice fermented sour but still sweet smell to it (not yeasty or like bread)... and my birds love it (I’m feeding it to Guineas,Turkeys and now Coturninx Quail). I have had no issues with it going bad/rancid/foul, and no issues with the birds refusing to eat it, nor are the birds showing any ill effects from eating it.[/SIZE] [/COLOR]​

[COLOR=4B0082]I am impressed as well as satisfied with this batch of FF so far. The smell that was aromatically emanating from underneath my wire floored grow out pen with young Guineas in it quickly improved and still remains under control. Besides that valuable perk, my Quail eggs definitely have bigger yolks after just 1 week on the FF (my only laying Hens, lol [/COLOR] )[COLOR=4B0082]. [/COLOR]​

[COLOR=4B0082]A fresh egg I collected from this AM is on the right, and a 2 wk old egg is on the left (both eggs were visually very close in size, but I did not weigh them). [/COLOR]​

[COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]I recently got a bottle of Bragg's UP/ACV w/Mother and was wondering if I should I start an entirely new batch of FF with it, or if I should just go ahead and add some ACV to my existing FF mix? I don't need/want a science project gone bad experience in my feed shed if the yeast started FF won't get along with the UP/ACV, lol.[/SIZE][/COLOR]​

[COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]One other thing... I noticed these listed in my game bird pellet ingredients:[/SIZE][/COLOR]​

• [COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product dehydrated[/SIZE][/COLOR]
• [COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]Lactobacillus casei fermentation product dehydrated[/SIZE][/COLOR]
• [COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]Enterococcus faegium fermentation product dehydrated[/SIZE][/COLOR]
• [COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]Bifidobacterium thermophilium fermentation product dehydrated[/SIZE][/COLOR]

​

[COLOR=4B0082][SIZE=10.5pt]Do you think these are these active in my FF? If so maybe this is why my FF is doing so well, even tho I [/SIZE]initially [SIZE=10.5pt] used the expired bread machine yeast to get it started[/SIZE][/COLOR] [SIZE=10.5pt][COLOR=4B0082] [/COLOR][/SIZE]​

I believe fermentation products are those left over from making other things. Such as corn used in making alcohol. Such corn would still have some "fermentation products" in it along with the corn. But sometimes this stuff is also used as a "medication." For instance, (copied from wikipedia) " L. acidophilus LA-5 produces bacteriocin CH5 that is both antibacterial and inhibitory against certain yeasts and moulds and is effective against both Salmonella typhimurium"

 

[Miss Lydia]

http://www.ag-choice.com/solution.html

It's really true...it's on their website...

Thats disgusting to me.

 

[Beekissed]

Wowza, Peepsca!!!! Thanks for posting that pic of the eggs....what a difference! It would have been cool to have an egg from the same chicken for comparison. How neat is it to be able to enlarge the yolks on your eggs by a simple change in feeding? As for your FF...if it ain't broke, don't fix it! They are still getting some good probiotics and if you want the ones from the ACV, just put those in your water. Keep doing what you are doing because you must be doin' somethin' right!!!

 

[Lacy Blues]

I'm as far as you can get from an OT, but I do have a fair knowledge of microbes. I would really hesitate to say whether those lactobacilli are active. The fact that they're dehydrated makes me suspicious, but it would be hard to say without knowing what kind of tempuratures they've been exposed to.
Also, I can't think of any reason why you can't just throw the ACV right on in there with the yeast started FF.

I feel the same way. How can something that lives in a semi-liquid state be alive when dried? I know that I have taken acidophilus supplements in capsules (dried) and they didn't do a single thing for me. I also wonder about frozen yogurt. The implication is that it is so very good for you because it's yogurt after all... well... I hate to bust bubbles but if you do some research you will find that sugar added to these products will KILL the beneficial bacteria. It doesn't even matter what kind of sugar it is. Even honey. The only time this stuff is healthy, is before the sugars are added. Frozen though? Even plain yogurt, when frozen, wouldn't that kill the beneficials?

Anytime I've seen probios as a supplement it always has a cell count and says "viable cells" I generally assume if it doesn't specifically say "viable" then they're dead and thus useless. Maybe it's just the cynic in me!
At the same time though, I'm not sure why they would put dead bacteria in the feed, so maybe they are active cultures, who knows?
I bet if you called the manufacturer, they would tell you.

I'd almost be willing to bet that they wouldn't tell.

I noticed on the hen in my avatar the same thing. Last year her lacing wasn't all that great. But she's molting and the new ones are very nicely laced! I never thought to attribute it to FF (duh) and was just in awe that they look as good as they do.

Could you post pictures? Since you have a before picture and now you could take a current one, I'd LOVE to see it. I don't think I have a before picture of my hen that had very little lacing.

Thats disgusting to me.

Me too! I won't be using their product.

I've started my ff with just grains. Now they can pick out the alfalfa and they do. So, I'm wondering about green stuff. I've given them alfalfa from a bale before but I see them running around with sticks coming out of their throats. Doesn't anybody worry about crop impaction with this type of feeding? My birds all LOVE clover. I need to get some planted so I can have a source of green feed for them that I can mix into their food or just give it to them loose. I don't know if I could do it now though with winter coming. Anybody have any experience in this area?

 

[pigeonguy]

I've started my ff with just grains. Now they can pick out the alfalfa and they do. So, I'm wondering about green stuff. I've given them alfalfa from a bale before but I see them running around with sticks coming out of their throats. Doesn't anybody worry about crop impaction with this type of feeding? My birds all LOVE clover. I need to get some planted so I can have a source of green feed for them that I can mix into their food or just give it to them loose. I don't know if I could do it now though with winter coming. Anybody have any experience in this area?

Have you heard of fodder for greens.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/713334/growing-fodder-for-chickens