Fertile interspecific pigeon hybrids

[Lamg]

Many people in the past have considered creating a new breed of pigeon with a little "blood" from another related species. It is most tempting to create a massive pigeon with good flying skills, based on the homing pigeon and wood pigeon.

Interspecific breeding has indeed occurred in the past. A recent study found that the checkerboard pattern of the domestic pigeon was adopted through cross-breeding with the pigeon in the past. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/242552v1.full

The Gazzy pattern split off and was fixed probably due to ancient crossing with the Snow Pigeon, with which it has fertile offspring due to close kinship.

Many chicken breeds owe their existence to the crossing of domesticated chickens with other 3 jungefowl species - gray factor, different comb forms, vocal expressions. It will probably be similar for pigeons, but further research is needed.

A fertile hybrid F1 male can be obtained by crossing a domesticated pigeon male x wood pigeon female. If it were the other way around, the offspring are never fertile.
Once you get such a fertile male, you can backcross back to a domestic pigeon and subsequent generations are 100% fertile, and you can create a new breed.
An article that mentions the fertility of offspring from the crossing of rock pigeon x wood pigeon.
http://www.macroevolution.net/gametes.html#.Uzan5eL05HA (Podmore)

The problem is that wood pigeon hybrids are extremely shy and can die from stress. Even the drive for winter migration is preserved in the first few generations.

Videos where hybrids can be seen, some show birds that are quarter woodie.

Known pigeon hybrids and their fertility:
http://www.exoticdove.com/IDS/Articles/hybrids.htm

 

[lost-duckling]

I think we can all agree that what we really need to happen is research regarding blue crowned pigeon X giant runt pigeon hybrids.

 

[Lamg]

This would belong in another thread.
Blue crowned pigeon is from a completely different genus. The offspring will certainly not be fertile, but most likely the embryo would die already in the egg due to fatal disorders that arise when crossing between too distant branches.

I am thinking of real and natural crossing for the purpose of gaining some beneficial characteristic. Similar to the red factor in canaries, it was obtained by crossing with a red siskin. It was possible to obtain a fertile F1 hybrid male and create a line with a red color based on it.

There are about only four closely related species with which the domestic pigeon could have fertile offspring. It's similar to chickens, there are 3 species that are the closest relatives and they still had a lot to offer.

 

[lost-duckling]

If the goal is to get a bigger pigeon with better flying ability why not use a giant runt instead of a wood pigeon? Not that I have either but according to google the runts are on par if not bigger in terms of mass.

When you think about how many different things a guinea hen has been reported to cross with it is a little more reasonable that at least infertile offspring would be obtained. and as with almost all "infertile" hybrids they are called such because the majority are sterile not because they all are.

 

[Lamg]

I don't want to offend you, but I think you didn't keep pigeons. I breed homing pigeons and I know that pigeons lose many of their flight skills through breeding. When you cross any breed, that cannot fly hundreds of kilometers, with a homing pigeon, you reduce its abilities. The ability to maneuver in a gale and find a place just above the ground where there is the least turbulence. Evasive maneuvers when attacked by a predator, when the pigeon turns around the axis on its back at the last moment using a corkscrew to escape from the claws of the predator, the ability to orientate in space, the ability to remember the terrain and choose the most suitable path for flight. All this is destroyed when crossing with heavy breeds that are kept (and degenerate) in aviaries for generations and barely fly a few kilometers.

The Wood pigeon is a stout pigeon and a skilled flyer. It even undergoes annual migration and returns to its original nesting site every year. Crossing with him will only promote flight skills, not harm as in the case of domesticated breeds, and at the same time contribute to a more powerful constitution. I am planning to create such a line, some have succeeded, unfortunately I will not be able to get to their pigeons, so I will have to go my own way and from the beginning.

 

[lost-duckling]

Dont worry I wont be offended since I am mostly in this section to learn. and your correct i dont keep pigeons for racing or any such thing YET, I would like to in the future though.

 

[Mihai]

Wish you luck with this project! In how many years do you think you'll achieve it (the first generation that you can call it a breed and not a hybrid anymore)?

 

[Lamg]

Getting a fertile F1 male can take a year, but maybe three or more. Once I get him (them), I will mate it with the best homing females to get a large flock of this quarter wood pigeon homing pigeon. I will divide this offspring according to sex and again cross with homing pigeon. Gradually, the share of Wood pigeon genes will be small but noticeable, the selection for the desired traits will begin. In doing so, I may create a second or even a third unrelated line where the procedure will be the same.

I have no plans to create an "official breed" maybe I don't even have a goal, it could take 5 years, maybe even 10 years. I will learn how heredity works, what are the possibilities and when I reach a racing pigeon with a good body and abilities and a minimal share of wood pigeon genes, I will start establishing traits and the whole line.

 

[Odense]

I don't want to offend you, but I think you didn't keep pigeons. I breed homing pigeons and I know that pigeons lose many of their flight skills through breeding. When you cross any breed, that cannot fly hundreds of kilometers, with a homing pigeon, you reduce its abilities. The ability to maneuver in a gale and find a place just above the ground where there is the least turbulence. Evasive maneuvers when attacked by a predator, when the pigeon turns around the axis on its back at the last moment using a corkscrew to escape from the claws of the predator, the ability to orientate in space, the ability to remember the terrain and choose the most suitable path for flight. All this is destroyed when crossing with heavy breeds that are kept (and degenerate) in aviaries for generations and barely fly a few kilometers.

The Wood pigeon is a stout pigeon and a skilled flyer. It even undergoes annual migration and returns to its original nesting site every year. Crossing with him will only promote flight skills, not harm as in the case of domesticated breeds, and at the same time contribute to a more powerful constitution. I am planning to create such a line, some have succeeded, unfortunately I will not be able to get to their pigeons, so I will have to go my own way and from the beginning.

Do you any links to those projects that have had success in creating hybrid pigeon lines ?

 

[Lamg]

Do you any links to those projects that have had success in creating hybrid pigeon lines ?

Oh, sry, I completely missed your message. I have only one source - see photos. The original can be found on the internet, it took me a long time and it's been a long time, so unfortunately I can't post the link.

The proportion of wood pigeon genes found is reported in the study cited in this article: https://avianhybrids.wordpress.com/...on-plumage-patterns-a-role-for-hybridization/