Fertility

[JacinLarkwell]

Just some fertility questions because obviously something's no longer working in my flock

1) what age do pullets start being fertile? Or is it that their very first egg is the first chance at having an embryo

2) when do cockerels reach fertility? I have one and then a rooster and feel I should have more fertile eggs showing up. The last nest that my hen had that hatched in May was 5 eggs and all 5 hatched with no problem

3) Do male's lose fertility as they age?

4) If you keep a male alone when he's going through hormones, can that make him not know how to breed anymore?


(I can expand in these issues if needed to make things clearer)

 

[Ruthster55]

Is it possible that eggs are disappearing under your broody hens? That could be a snake or possum problem that happens at night while the broody hen is asleep.

Or, are you using an incubator and candling? Need a little bit more info to figure what could be the source of the problem.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Is it possible that eggs are disappearing under your broody hens? That could be a snake or possum problem that happens at night while the broody hen is asleep.

Or, are you using an incubator and candling? Need a little bit more info to figure what could be the source of the problem.

No, the number has stayed the same and I've candled and none of the eggs show any possible signs of developement. They're about 5 days old and I'm able to see them as early as 3 days normally.

 

[Mrs. K]

How hot is it?

As for pullets eggs, I have always seen advice to wait until the eggs are full size, as a lot don't make it do to not being big enough.

Are you checking for the bulls eyes when you cook eggs? Keep a tally sheet, and if you are getting a high percentage of fertilized of eggs, you can be confident with what you set.

An older rooster could also be loosing his fertility, but if he is backed up by a younger bird, I would be suprised.

Which brings me to the weather, what is that doing in your area?

Mrs K

 

[JacinLarkwell]

It's been rather hot for a while, usually high minutes at the hottest part, but I'm not sure that's the smissue because I've been continuously hatching my Pheonix nests since may.

My older roo is around 4 or 5, but my younger male is only 4 months old so I'm not sure if he's old enough or even big enough to get to the bigger hens I have.

I actually don't eat eggs, I give them back to the birds, but I'll start doing fertility checks again the next time we get eggs from the particular birds.

On another note, I did see a little heartbeat in my Spitz egg today, but the top was cracked somehow. I don't think it broke the membrane, but I can see the cracks when I candle it....

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Do you know if a rooster will stop breeding when he's been seperated? I had a huge turken male I had to seperate because he was trying to mount my Japanese bantams all the time and since giving him an able sized gal to breed with, I've seen nothing. I haven't checked her eggs yet, but I just find it a little puzzling that in not seeing anything where before he was practically mounting anything that moved

 

[Ridgerunner]

1) what age do pullets start being fertile? Or is it that their very first egg is the first chance at having an embryo

As soon as they start laying eggs they should provide their contribution to the DNA. The egg-laying process is pretty complicated, there are lots of chances for something to go wrong. That's why it is not unusual for the first eggs pullets lay to look weird. There are things you can't see that are required for an egg to develop and hatch that you can't see. To me it's surprising how many get all that right from the start.

You see recommendations to not hatch pullet eggs. There are valid reasons for that depending on your goals. If you are evaluating a hen for egg laying to see if you want to breed her you need to wait until she's laid a while. If you are breeding them for show you want to wait until they grow up before you decide which are your best.

I hatch chicks for meat and to play with genetics. I hatch pullet eggs. That fits my goals. I select my males for breeding when they are the age I want to eat them. I hold off on selecting which pullets are kept for my laying/breeding flock until I've seen them lay for a while. But I eat the others, nothing wrong with them.

I don't get as good of a hatch rate with pullet eggs as I do with eggs from hens that are older. Sometimes my hatch rate with pullet eggs is really good, sometimes pretty close to awful. It sometimes takes a while for a pullet to work out the kinks in her internal egg making factory. Practically every chick I hatch lives. When one dies odds are it hatched from a small pullet egg. Those eggs just aren't that big so they can't contain enough nutrients for a big chick so maybe they are a bit weaker. Or maybe something wasn't 100% right with the embryo even if it hatched. That can happen with eggs from older hens too but is more likely with pullets. I've found that if I wait until the pullet has been laying for a month before I set her eggs I'm a lot less likely to have these problems.

I think when to set eggs depends a lot on your goals.

2) when do cockerels reach fertility?

I don't know. Some will start trying to mate with pullets really young, some not so young. Some hens or pullets will let a young cockerel mate them, others won't. The girls have a part to play in that too.

Then there is the question of when their sperm is viable. I think that depends on how fast they mature. I butcher cockerels. When I open them up I can see that some appear sexually mature much younger than others. Some have testicles the size of a mature rooster while others are tremendously smaller. The ones more sexually mature are more likely to be accepted by the hens and pullets, so if they are letting him mate I'd assume he is capable of fertilizing the eggs.

3) Do male's lose fertility as they age?

I agree, they can. It might be physical fertility, the sperm just isn't as potent. But often it's vigor. They just don't mate with the hens like they used to. This depends on the rooster. Some five year olds don't have a problem keeping 25 to 30 hens fertile, some may not manage more than 3 or 4.

4) If you keep a male alone when he's going through hormones, can that make him not know how to breed anymore?

No, it's instinctive. Different chickens have different levels of instincts or hormones. Some hens go broody, some don't. Some broody hens instinctively keep their chicks really close, others let them roam further. Each chicken is different with their own personality.

Anything is possible, you may have a cockerel with messed up instincts, but I consider that highly unlikely. A 4 month old cockerel is still a young boy, maybe a pre-teen. He almost certainly hasn't matured enough for the hens or even pullets to willingly allowed him to breed. And the mature rooster will suppress his behaviors even if he wants to. He hasn't forgotten how, he just isn't old enough yet. Though often by 4 months he will be trying.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

1) what age do pullets start being fertile? Or is it that their very first egg is the first chance at having an embryo

As soon as they start laying eggs they should provide their contribution to the DNA. The egg-laying process is pretty complicated, there are lots of chances for something to go wrong. That's why it is not unusual for the first eggs pullets lay to look weird. There are things you can't see that are required for an egg to develop and hatch that you can't see. To me it's surprising how many get all that right from the start.

You see recommendations to not hatch pullet eggs. There are valid reasons for that depending on your goals. If you are evaluating a hen for egg laying to see if you want to breed her you need to wait until she's laid a while. If you are breeding them for show you want to wait until they grow up before you decide which are your best.

I hatch chicks for meat and to play with genetics. I hatch pullet eggs. That fits my goals. I select my males for breeding when they are the age I want to eat them. I hold off on selecting which pullets are kept for my laying/breeding flock until I've seen them lay for a while. But I eat the others, nothing wrong with them.

I don't get as good of a hatch rate with pullet eggs as I do with eggs from hens that are older. Sometimes my hatch rate with pullet eggs is really good, sometimes pretty close to awful. It sometimes takes a while for a pullet to work out the kinks in her internal egg making factory. Practically every chick I hatch lives. When one dies odds are it hatched from a small pullet egg. Those eggs just aren't that big so they can't contain enough nutrients for a big chick so maybe they are a bit weaker. Or maybe something wasn't 100% right with the embryo even if it hatched. That can happen with eggs from older hens too but is more likely with pullets. I've found that if I wait until the pullet has been laying for a month before I set her eggs I'm a lot less likely to have these problems.

I think when to set eggs depends a lot on your goals.

2) when do cockerels reach fertility?

I don't know. Some will start trying to mate with pullets really young, some not so young. Some hens or pullets will let a young cockerel mate them, others won't. The girls have a part to play in that too.

Then there is the question of when their sperm is viable. I think that depends on how fast they mature. I butcher cockerels. When I open them up I can see that some appear sexually mature much younger than others. Some have testicles the size of a mature rooster while others are tremendously smaller. The ones more sexually mature are more likely to be accepted by the hens and pullets, so if they are letting him mate I'd assume he is capable of fertilizing the eggs.

3) Do male's lose fertility as they age?

I agree, they can. It might be physical fertility, the sperm just isn't as potent. But often it's vigor. They just don't mate with the hens like they used to. This depends on the rooster. Some five year olds don't have a problem keeping 25 to 30 hens fertile, some may not manage more than 3 or 4.

4) If you keep a male alone when he's going through hormones, can that make him not know how to breed anymore?

No, it's instinctive. Different chickens have different levels of instincts or hormones. Some hens go broody, some don't. Some broody hens instinctively keep their chicks really close, others let them roam further. Each chicken is different with their own personality.

Anything is possible, you may have a cockerel with messed up instincts, but I consider that highly unlikely. A 4 month old cockerel is still a young boy, maybe a pre-teen. He almost certainly hasn't matured enough for the hens or even pullets to willingly allowed him to breed. And the mature rooster will suppress his behaviors even if he wants to. He hasn't forgotten how, he just isn't old enough yet. Though often by 4 months he will be trying.

Alright, thanks. The ones I'm worries about forgetting are actually 5 and 6 months old, my little 4 month old is with the main flock and his dad. I'm not sure if his dad will suppress him or act like his dad did and let him be with one's that he didn't find favorable.

I'm hatching mostly just to play with genetics and add colorful bird to my flock, not for egg laying (gods know we have too many eggs as it is here XD )

I haven't even seen the 4 month old try to breed, that's why I was asking about age, since even my other young male's in a different flock the same age are certainly trying to get away with it.

My isolate male I'm worried about just puzzles me because before he was mounting everyone (even tried with my main male once or twice) and now he doesn't even pay attention to the hen he's with


I asked about losing fertility because my main male have every single egg viable the last batch and now only one so far has any sign of being viable out of I think a dozen. I know he's still trying to mate and I'm sure he's mounting the ones that are small enough for him to reach

 

[Ridgerunner]

I asked about losing fertility because my main male have every single egg viable the last batch and now only one so far has any sign of being viable out of I think a dozen. I know he's still trying to mate and I'm sure he's mounting the ones that are small enough for him to reach

It's not always the rooster's fault. It can be, not just from loss of vigor but maybe injury or disease. But if he is trying he's probably OK. It's unlikely it would be the hen's fault, at least all of them. Some individual hens can have issues too.

When I've had bad failures to even develop like that it's usually been my fault. Typically how I handled them or how long they were stored. Did they get too hot, too cold, or shaken up. I really messed up one batch when I did not cushion them enough when I transported them on a dirt road. Have you calibrated your incubator temperature since the last time you used it?

All I can suggest is to try again. Good luck!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Okay, I keep forgetting about the hens part.

I don't touch the eggs since luckily this year I have been blessed with tons of broodies and they do all the work. I'll check my Cochins eggs tonight and see how they look because she's his favorite hen now that the Pheonix is moved to a new flock.