Fish meal vs. raw meats in home made feed

[pdirt]

I generally don't pay over $1.19/lb, although occasionally for beef or pork I have to shell out $1.40/lb or so. I get a lot of duck absolutely free from a hunter friend too.

These prices you pay, is this for animals that have been fed non-GMO, no pesticides, antibiotics and the like? Not necessarily organic, but at least not fed a bunch of toxic stuff? If so, that's good to know and maybe I can find something like that around here. Do you buy direct from a farmer? And I need to learn to hunt or make friends with one!

 

[SavageDestiny]

These prices you pay, is this for animals that have been fed non-GMO, no pesticides, antibiotics and the like? Not necessarily organic, but at least not fed a bunch of toxic stuff? If so, that's good to know and maybe I can find something like that around here. Do you buy direct from a farmer? And I need to learn to hunt or make friends with one!

The ducks, yes- they're wild! I can occasionally get good free range, organic goat meat as well, but unfortunately the best I can get for beef and chicken is antibiotic free. Anything more than that is prohibitively expensive to feed 2 50lbs dogs! I mostly buy meat from the grocery store, but there's a local guy who sells beef from cows that died during birth and the like- not diseased, but not sellable for human consumption- he can sell pretty cheap.

I forgot to add, I would contact the company that makes the fish meal and find out if they are using the whole fish. A lot of times fish meal is just fish heads and skeletons after the meat has been taken off for human consumption. This can result in a high ash content, which is high in phosphorus and can throw off the calcium/phosphorus ratio in the diet. This isn't as big a problem in preformulated feed like Scratch N Peck because they'd be accounting for it, but it's important to know if you're mixing feed yourself. I'd also be curious to know what kind of fish they are using and if it changes every bag.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Just remember that when adding raw,fresh meat to a diet that you must reduce the weight of the meat by 70% since it is mostly water. If you have 1 lb of meat, in reality you only have about 5 ounces of "feed".

 

[pdirt]

Just remember that when adding raw,fresh meat to a diet that you must reduce the weight of the meat by 70% since it is mostly water. If you have 1 lb of meat, in reality you only have about 5 ounces of "feed".

Such a good point that I'm sure is easily overlooked! Makes the cost of dried fish meal seem so much more economical. But I realize there are benefits to raw meat as well, enzymes, B vitamins, etc. I'd like to see if I can get my hands on a whole beef liver, chop it up and freeze it and feed it as a supplement to the birds.

I've seen your posts here on BYC several times and you seem to know your stuff around nutrition, thanks for sharing. Do you know the expected shelf life (once opened) of a bag of fish meal preserved with Naturox?

The ducks, yes- they're wild! I can occasionally get good free range, organic goat meat as well, but unfortunately the best I can get for beef and chicken is antibiotic free. Anything more than that is prohibitively expensive to feed 2 50lbs dogs! I mostly buy meat from the grocery store, but there's a local guy who sells beef from cows that died during birth and the like- not diseased, but not sellable for human consumption- he can sell pretty cheap.

I forgot to add, I would contact the company that makes the fish meal and find out if they are using the whole fish. A lot of times fish meal is just fish heads and skeletons after the meat has been taken off for human consumption. This can result in a high ash content, which is high in phosphorus and can throw off the calcium/phosphorus ratio in the diet. This isn't as big a problem in preformulated feed like Scratch N Peck because they'd be accounting for it, but it's important to know if you're mixing feed yourself. I'd also be curious to know what kind of fish they are using and if it changes every bag.

Yeah, I'll check on that about the fish meal. The fish in Scratch n Peck is Menhaden fish usually from off the Baja coast, which apparently has very little market as human fish food, but makes great feed. So I doubt it would be just the fish heads or skeletons, but if I do go that route, I'll be sure to double check. The link to the 50lbs bag of fish meal doesn't specify what species of fish is in it. Shipping any of this stuff is prohibitive for the average backyard chicken flock, unless you can get a group order or go through your local feed store to see if they can special order. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Most of the fish meal used in livestock feeds is from the Menhaden fish. The menhaden fish does not have a human food use and typically has a great yield, the fish meal made from the menhaden contains the entire fish. However changes in the fisheries have worked to increase the price of fishmeal. In higher quality feeds, such as baby pig feeds, Special Select Menahden Fishmeal is used, which has high requirements for quality and freshness.

 

[SavageDestiny]

Just remember that when adding raw,fresh meat to a diet that you must reduce the weight of the meat by 70% since it is mostly water. If you have 1 lb of meat, in reality you only have about 5 ounces of "feed".

Oh yes, I know. That's part of why I like raw foods so much- the animals naturally get water from the food they eat. My raw fed dogs drink less than half the amount kibble fed dogs do.

Such a good point that I'm sure is easily overlooked! Makes the cost of dried fish meal seem so much more economical. But I realize there are benefits to raw meat as well, enzymes, B vitamins, etc. I'd like to see if I can get my hands on a whole beef liver, chop it up and freeze it and feed it as a supplement to the birds.

I've seen your posts here on BYC several times and you seem to know your stuff around nutrition, thanks for sharing. Do you know the expected shelf life (once opened) of a bag of fish meal preserved with Naturox?



Yeah, I'll check on that about the fish meal. The fish in Scratch n Peck is Menhaden fish usually from off the Baja coast, which apparently has very little market as human fish food, but makes great feed. So I doubt it would be just the fish heads or skeletons, but if I do go that route, I'll be sure to double check. The link to the 50lbs bag of fish meal doesn't specify what species of fish is in it. Shipping any of this stuff is prohibitive for the average backyard chicken flock, unless you can get a group order or go through your local feed store to see if they can special order. Thanks for the tip.

Beef liver should be easy to find. Most grocery stores even sell it, although it's expensive. Butcher shops and specialty markets should have a better price.

 

[pdirt]

Beef liver should be easy to find. Most grocery stores even sell it, although it's expensive. Butcher shops and specialty markets should have a better price.

For sure, yes at a grocery store would have it. Over the years, the more I've learned about what goes into most animals intended for meat, the less I choose to eat them. I still eat meat for sure, but far less than I used to, partially driven by the expense of pastured or organic meats. I'm not such a snob that I will turn down what might be served at a dinner party, but when it comes to choosing, I am pickier. Especially for liver, seeing how it is such a major filter for the body.

We are lucky to have some very excellent pastured meat and organ meats available locally, but it's crazy expensive. I'm hoping to find someone who raises their animals as cleanly (or close to it) for a better price.

 

[SavageDestiny]

For sure, yes at a grocery store would have it. Over the years, the more I've learned about what goes into most animals intended for meat, the less I choose to eat them. I still eat meat for sure, but far less than I used to, partially driven by the expense of pastured or organic meats. I'm not such a snob that I will turn down what might be served at a dinner party, but when it comes to choosing, I am pickier. Especially for liver, seeing how it is such a major filter for the body.

We are lucky to have some very excellent pastured meat and organ meats available locally, but it's crazy expensive. I'm hoping to find someone who raises their animals as cleanly (or close to it) for a better price.

Post on Craigslist! A lot of people slaughtering livestock throw away the organs as they have no use for them. I have gotten loads of innards- lung, pancreas, spleen, heart, liver, testicles, tripe- FREE from people who would otherwise have thrown it away. It helps if you don't mind getting bloody and helping to butcher/slaughter. Last year a friend and I split the innards of 8 goats someone slaughtered, but we had to empty the stomachs, cut out the testicles, separate all the organs, etc. ourselves. So worth it!

 

[pdirt]

Post on Craigslist! A lot of people slaughtering livestock throw away the organs as they have no use for them. I have gotten loads of innards- lung, pancreas, spleen, heart, liver, testicles, tripe- FREE from people who would otherwise have thrown it away. It helps if you don't mind getting bloody and helping to butcher/slaughter. Last year a friend and I split the innards of 8 goats someone slaughtered, but we had to empty the stomachs, cut out the testicles, separate all the organs, etc. ourselves. So worth it!

Very good idea, especially about offering to help in the butcher! We live in the sticks. No craigslist here and the nearest CL is 2 hours away. BUT we do have a fair amount of livestock here, so I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to get good organ meats. We're new here and the delicacies of a small town are how to make friends and not enemies. There is a nuance to how to ask a farmer how he/she raises their animals without offending them or coming across like a snooty organic-freak. Some people just don't see anything wrong with widespread use of antibiotics or pesticides. I suppose I'd find it easier if I had to drive a few hours to find such (hopefully good quality) meats and organs where I would not be likely to run into the farmer in grocery store and have an awkward moment.