Flock and coup size for "The Master Plan".

[Johntodd]

Hi! I am a newbie to chickens, although I do have experience from when I was a child.

My plan is to split my HUGE garden in half, and let the chickens process one side while I garden the other. Each year, I flip-flop the garden and chicken run. The coop will be in the middle and have doors for each side. All will be fenced as needed to keep the chickens where they should be. Obviously, the door on the garden side remains closed that year.

I intend to flip-flop indefinitely into the future. I need all the help I can get with bugs and weeds in the garden. So, let'em rip and process the ground for me ahead of time.

I've got the overview of the plan done, and now it's time to crunch the numbers. Here's my big question:

How many chickens?

Each run is ~3000 sq. ft. How many chickens should I put there to have them "clear" the run in one year? (52 weeks).

I'd like them to scratch around eating bugs, weeds, weed seeds, etc, making compost for me, etc., all the things chickens seem to enjoy. What I don't want is a muddy barenaked run for part of the year. And I'd like to minimize feed purchases. Esp. during growing or warm season. I understand I'll need feed for the winter.

All these things, to me, point to a smaller flock of 3-5 chickens. That's 3-5 chickens in a 3000 sq.ft run for a year.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks so much!
-Johntodd

 

[MeepBeep]

the soil in the run, really does not improve. 

I don't understand that.  That's the complete opposite of everything I've seen/read.

Too much fertilizer and too much 'pounding' of the ground creates an unfriendly environment for vegetation growth Chicken manure can easily drive the nitrogen content of the soil to toxic levels for vegetation.... Good healthy soil is not compacted and has balanced fertilizers and nutrients, if you tip the scales it can easily become infertile or at least less fertile...

Let me ask another related question: how much space would you need per chicken to NOT end up with a barren moon-scape?

I think THAT's the question I should be asking!

There is no solid answer, the amount of bugs, type of bugs, amount of vegetation and type of vegetation combined with growth rates of the vegetation and reproductive rates of the bugs varies from location to location as does weather and climate from day to day, these variables can make a huge difference even in short distance or from week to week... Even your particular chickens will make a difference, some like digging and scratching in one area others roam and pick... Also regardless of your desire for them live off the land, confinement even to a larger area doesn't really afford that option and you will likely need to supplement with feed if you want health birds, and thus another huge variable tossed into the mix... Also consider the huge effect of a short period of heavy rain or drought, both could result a huge mess even when it was working perfectly a few weeks prior...

You are asking for a single answer when none exist, you will need to find your balance by trial and error and that could balance will have to be monitored and adjusted pretty much constantly as variables change...

I would start with say 5 chickens and see what happens in a year...

 

[Ridgerunner]

What is your climate like? People in Denver, Yuma, or Miami might have different answers to this. Things grow a lot faster if you are in a warm wet area than a cool dry area. Seasons make a big difference.

I think there is a flaw in your plan. Either you have enough chickens to keep the grass and weeds cleaned up (which means a barren landscape) or they don’t keep the grass and weeds out. They will still fertilize it and eat a lot of bugs but they only eat certain things. Unless they are really packed in there pretty tightly it’s possible certain undesirable things they don’t like to eat can take over.

I keep mine in an area about 45’ x 90’ (about 4000 square feet). Sometimes I may be down to 7 or 8 chickens, sometimes I have more than 40 though many of these are younger and growing to butcher size. During the winter it can look pretty barren in there but in the summer I have to cut it a few times to get rid of the weeds and grass they don’t eat to give the ones they do eat room to grow. Even with 40 in there, they have plenty grass and weeds to eat in the summer as long as we don’t have an extended drought.

There are people that do what you are talking about. The ones I know have more than two sections so they are not flipping every year but maybe rotate every four years. All I can suggest is to try it and see how it goes. We are all unique in many ways. What might meet my requirements might not work for you. I don’t know your climate or how clean you actually want it but you may find 5 chickens isn’t nearly enough.

Good luck!

 

[lazy gardener]

I don't understand that. That's the complete opposite of everything I've seen/read.

I think that depends entirely on how the run is managed. IMO, any bare soil is unhealthy soil. So, if you are able to keep a healthy cover crop or mulch in place, the soil WILL improve. And not just a little bit, but it will improve dramatically. How often have you driven by a chicken run and seen the birds lined up at the fence, staring at the grass growing just outside beak range on the other side of the fence, while they are left in a barren moon scape that is alternately a dust bowl or a mud pit, depending on the season? I see it way too often to keep count. But, if you take that same barren run, and put a nice deep layer of mulch (6" is just a beginning, because that mulch will quickly melt into the soil as all of the beneficial organisms go to work on it) over the run, the chickens will have a never ending source of entertainment and food. They will flip through the mulch, harvesting the insects/worms/and even eating a fair share of the mulch.

Vermont Compost company uses chickens as an integral part of their compost manufacture operation. This business model is a winning proposition for business owner, local towns and businesses who are able to divert their waste away from local land fills, chickens who derive all of their sustenance from this operation, while providing free eggs and enriching the compost with manure, and the many customers who purchase the finished product to enrich their gardens.

John, there are many directions you could head with your garden/poultry operation. You could even divide your garden into 4 blocks, with the coop in the center. This would give you more options for management than the 2 block style. How big a garden do you REALLY need? Are you growing more than you need right now? Is a lot of it going to waste? Do you anticipate adding any other type of lifestock in the future? Are you working harder than you need to to grow what you want to grow? Are you planning to donate/sell excess veggies? Will you cover crop? Do you do a lot of tilling throughout the garden season? What's your climate, water availability, soil type? I'm excited about the many options available to you and hope that you will supply us with photos and an ongoing write up of how this plan unfolds over the next year or two. I'd also be interested in a before/after soil analysis.

Reading back through your post, I came to the section where you are hoping for minimal feed inputs. While your birds will eat a lot of the greenery in your garden spots, I doubt that the plant material will be varied enough that they will have their nutritional needs met. I expect that you will need to feed them on a daily basis. But, you could grow some cover crops that are protein dense, and also grow some crops that bear a fair amount of seeds that they could harvest directly in the garden. I don't think you'll be able to expect them to have the soil weed free and seed ready at planting time. But, they will do a lot of pest management for you!

 

[Kassaundra]

Hi! I am a newbie to chickens, although I do have experience from when I was a child.

My plan is to split my HUGE garden in half, and let the chickens process one side while I garden the other. Each year, I flip-flop the garden and chicken run. The coop will be in the middle and have doors for each side. All will be fenced as needed to keep the chickens where they should be. Obviously, the door on the garden side remains closed that year.

I intend to flip-flop indefinitely into the future. I need all the help I can get with bugs and weeds in the garden. So, let'em rip and process the ground for me ahead of time.

I've got the overview of the plan done, and now it's time to crunch the numbers. Here's my big question:

How many chickens?

Each run is ~3000 sq. ft. How many chickens should I put there to have them "clear" the run in one year? (52 weeks).

I'd like them to scratch around eating bugs, weeds, weed seeds, etc, making compost for me, etc., all the things chickens seem to enjoy. What I don't want is a muddy barenaked run for part of the year. And I'd like to minimize feed purchases. Esp. during growing or warm season. I understand I'll need feed for the winter.

All these things, to me, point to a smaller flock of 3-5 chickens. That's 3-5 chickens in a 3000 sq.ft run for a year.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks so much!
-Johntodd

W/ 3 - 5 chickens in that size run you won't have bare ground at all in the year, you will have bare spots. They won't "clear the ground" at least in those numbers.

 

[lazy gardener]

Hey John. Wonderful plan. I like the idea that you are thinking small scale for your flock. Many flocksters would try to pack that run full of a lot of chickens. This would create nutrient saturation of the soil, and likely run off that would be toxic to the soil over time. I suggest that you read The Small-Scale Poultry Flock by Harvey Ussery. He offers plenty of suggestions that will mesh well with your management plan. He takes a careful look at the nutrient exchange of the soil when managing crops with poultry.

Other methods that you might like to look at: Back to Eden Gardening: or any of the writings by Ruth Stout. Either of these concepts can greatly reduce your work load in the garden, allowing you to increase productivity while decreasing your garden foot print. Both methods work well with poultry management.

 

[Folly's place]

Welcome! Your plan sounds good to me too. Consider ordering either straight run, planning to eat some cockrels in fall, or at least a nice group of maybe fifteen (can't have too many!) of various breeds, and pick favorites. I have never totally fenced my flock as you are planning, so really don't know if there's a 'magic number' that would be perfect. Mary

 

[Ridgerunner]

This is the thread I was talking about.

http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/just-sharing-my-chicken-garden-method.8816/

There is more discussion in this thread.

http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/chicken-tiller.10971/#post-114098

 

[lazy gardener]

I think THAT's the question I should be asking!

I can do some Wheel-Hoe tilling to do a final prep on the garden each year. But I want to be one of those people who sold their Rototiller because the chickens did so much work that I don't need it anymore.

John, my tiller rarely gets used in the garden! I still drag it out when I need to break up some hard pan to sink some posts, or break up heavy clay subsoil to plant a tree, break the sod to lay a stone walk way. But to use it to till soil in a garden... NO WAY! I can tell you that my chickens till the soil some. But, by far, the biggest benefit to a no till garden comes from having a constant deep mulch. I am currently installing a Back To Eden mulch over my existing garden. Started building a hugelkulture mound last summer, and installed a BTE orchard last summer. I have been doing deep mulch in the garden for 30+ years, and anticipate that the conversion to BTE will make an even greater improvement in the existing set up. But, I'll never sell that tiller! It's too valuable a tool, even though it does not get to play in the garden.

 

[Beekissed]

Hi! I am a newbie to chickens, although I do have experience from when I was a child.

My plan is to split my HUGE garden in half, and let the chickens process one side while I garden the other. Each year, I flip-flop the garden and chicken run. The coop will be in the middle and have doors for each side. All will be fenced as needed to keep the chickens where they should be. Obviously, the door on the garden side remains closed that year.

I intend to flip-flop indefinitely into the future. I need all the help I can get with bugs and weeds in the garden. So, let'em rip and process the ground for me ahead of time.

I've got the overview of the plan done, and now it's time to crunch the numbers. Here's my big question:

How many chickens?

Each run is ~3000 sq. ft. How many chickens should I put there to have them "clear" the run in one year? (52 weeks).

I'd like them to scratch around eating bugs, weeds, weed seeds, etc, making compost for me, etc., all the things chickens seem to enjoy. What I don't want is a muddy barenaked run for part of the year. And I'd like to minimize feed purchases. Esp. during growing or warm season. I understand I'll need feed for the winter.

All these things, to me, point to a smaller flock of 3-5 chickens. That's 3-5 chickens in a 3000 sq.ft run for a year.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks so much!
-Johntodd

I second what Lazy Gardener on that! Why not, instead of having the chickens impact your soil and strip it of all vegetation, pile some ramial wood chips in that lot about 6-10 in deep and let them add nitrogen into it, keep the weeds eaten as they pop up and can feed on the bugs and worms to be found there. That way, when you switch garden spots, you have composted material/mulch on the land, the soil is already soft and ready to be planted into and your chickens have been turning all your garden waste, yard waste and such into compost along with the wood chips.

A much, much healthier prospect for the soil and also for the flock. You could even plant some green manure crops into the chips in strips when they have composted several months, plant that crop into deer netting on the ground so the chickens can't scratch or pull up the greens and they could have some greens to eat and the crop can serve two purposes...feed the flock and also your composting garden when it's finally cut down.

Might as well let those chickens work for you in other ways than putting too much nitrogen on the soil and compacting the soils there. This way the nitrogen of their droppings have carbonaceous materials with which to bind and you can improve your soil health/structure in that manner.