Flock dominance question?

[sawilliams]

Long story short I have 10 hens the top 3 will occasionally month the others in a display of dominance. I have had them offer 2 years never had a rooster. I do now have a cockerel "Roosty" (in question different story) that is about 20w he had been with the flock for about 10 weeks and then 7 chicks about 10weeks old (6 pullets 1 cockerel).

So my mounting hens, it's not like a gang banger thing or anything all 3 mount at different times for different reasons, never compete with each other about it and all 3 lay eggs. They are and have always been #1, 2 and 3 in the pecking order each having different head jobs. Mildred is the leader, Ms. Marshall is the enforcer, and Black Betty is the watcher.

So today i let the chickens (all 18) out to free range. Just before I got around to the coop I heard a squabble, much like any hen putting a lower hen in her place. I didn't worry about this since the squabbles happen much more often now that mama had left her brood. As i let them Black Betty ran after Roosty to mount him. Unlike the other hens he refused this act of dominance with a brief squabble in his attempt to get away. I immediately realized this was likly the same squabble I heard moments before and Betty was trying agian to prove her position.

Now i know with a new young cockerel there will be an uproar in the chain of command as he comes of age, along with some vocal refusals, but as of right now he isn't to that point.

So the part the confussed me slightly. I could understand an immature pullet refusing a mounting and certainly expect it from a rooster or cocker, but i didn't expect even the head hens to try to mount a cockerel... is this normal considering the changes?

As to questioning Roostys gender, it's another post and he seems to just be a late bloomers as he is just finally starting to take a rooster like appearance. No eggs no crow from him yet.

 

[azygous]

The concise answer is that both hens and roosters will use the mating act to show dominance when they aren't satisfied with delivering a simple peck to the individual they wish to teach a lesson.

A young cockerel just coming into his hormones will get put in his place by older chickens of both sexes just as a pullet gets put in her place. Once in a great while a hen will use the mating act to drive home her point if she considers herself to be particularly dominant.

 

[sawilliams]

The concise answer is that both hens and roosters will use the mating act to show dominance when they aren't satisfied with delivering a simple peck to the individual they wish to teach a lesson.

A young cockerel just coming into his hormones will get put in his place by older chickens of both sexes just as a pullet gets put in her place. Once in a great while a hen will use the mating act to drive home her point if she considers herself to be particularly dominant.

Ok, so its not unusual for a dominate hen to mount a cockerel to maintain her head position or possibly punish him for some unknown chicken reason...

Does the fact that Betty did this imply that there is an actual hormone change happening in him that places him at a flock level rather then a chick level? I've never seen it between any of my birds before the mounted was laying...

 

[azygous]

I wouldn't say that what Betty did is usual, just that it's within the range of normal chicken behavior.

Cockerels start getting hormones as early as four to six weeks, hence the reddening of the nascent comb and wattles. By age ten weeks to four months, a cockerel has probably already started to engage in the overt behavior of his gender. At the same time, some flock members will notice and react to it.

 

[sawilliams]

I wouldn't say that what Betty did is usual, just that it's within the range of normal chicken behavior.

Cockerels start getting hormones as early as four to six weeks, hence the reddening of the nascent comb and wattles. By age ten weeks to four months, a cockerel has probably already started to engage in the overt behavior of his gender. At the same time, some flock members will notice and react to it.

I didn't say usual I said not unusual for a hen to do that.


Well there in lies the question of whether Roosty is a cockerel or pullet but regardless of his gender at the moment again i have never seen (at least not one of mine) hens try to mount a chick or pullet younger then laying age. I have seen there are distinct differences in the ways both the pullets and hens will react to to each other before and after the pullet starts to lay. Which is what i ment by asking if her trying to mount him indicated say a shift towards maturity. Honestly, I'm still not 100% convinced either way that he is a pullet or cockerel, but again that's a whole other thread.

Roosty is 20w so full maturity could be around the corner...

 

[aart]

20w is not full maturity,
just massive hormone flow and the beginning of sexual activity,
but it should be apparent what it's gender is.
Post a pic of 'him'.

'Mounting' is not just a sexual behavior but one of dominance,
both genders will employ it to put a subordinate in their place.

What your girl is doing is showing the cockerel he's not quite yet worthy of dominating or mating her. Head hens are often the last to succumb to a cockerels rise to reigning over the flock.

I have seen a newly laying pullet intimidate the cockerel, adult cockbird is present and in charge. That may change today as the cockbird is going to freezer camp, will be interesting, and hopefully bloodless, to see the pecking order change.

 

[sawilliams]

20w is not full maturity,
just massive hormone flow and the beginning of sexual activity,
but it should be apparent what it's gender is.
Post a pic of 'him'.

'Mounting' is not just a sexual behavior but one of dominance,
both genders will employ it to put a subordinate in their place.

What your girl is doing is showing the cockerel he's not quite yet worthy of dominating or mating her. Head hens are often the last to succumb to a cockerels rise to reigning over the flock.

I have seen a newly laying pullet intimidate the cockerel, adult cockbird is present and in charge. That may change today as the cockbird is going to freezer camp, will be interesting, and hopefully bloodless, to see the pecking order change.

Aart, i believe you have commented on the post about him... everyone agreed he was a pullet but in the last 2 weeks there have been some significant changes and most votes have changed to bee more likely a cockerel... Honestly I've just about given up on his gender.

But again, a hen won't typically show that sort of dominance act towards an underage pullet right? Implying that Roosty regardless of his gender is coming of age. As its typically about the time that chickens do come of age that they challange the established pecking order right? I mean obviously my hens aren't going to go mounting one of the little 10w chicks to put then in their place, there's no reason a 10w chick can't challenge the pecking order yet...

Anyway

just for you here is the newest pics of roosty, I'll see if I can tag you in the other thread

 

[sawilliams]

Sorry aart i must have mistaken you comment on another thread but he is the link to my pullet/cockerel thread

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/cockerel-or-pullets-lavender-orpington.1190087/

I'll post the new pics there too. Keep in mind i have continued to add pics throughout the thread and added the lavender chick in there as well

 

[aart]

Will look at other thread later.....
...but those are funky looking feathers, silkie mix maybe?

But again, a hen won't typically show that sort of dominance act towards an underage pullet right?

Well, sure they could, some girls are assertive might be more possible if there's no male in the flock.

 

[sawilliams]

No he's pure Orpington, he's from a breeder flock my friend has that she ordered from a high quality show line. She has a variety of colors but all are Orpington