Flock Integration Issues

[Chicks in Suburbia]

Hi Everyone - Long time reader, new poster!

I hesitate to post this because I feel like I read the same thing over and over, but I'm kind of at my wits end trying to integrate two chickens into my small flock. I previously had four, 4 year old hens that grew up together (barred rock, buff orp, two light brahmas). In March, we got two new additions, an ameraucana and a speckled sussex. In late May, we moved the new girls to a small coop outside right next to the "big girl's" coop. They stayed there for several weeks, then spent time outside each day free ranging with the big girls. Then we tried integrating into the coop, and it was a disaster. The Ameraucana got stuck in a corner and attacked mercilessly until I broke up the fight. So we tried another month of the close coops and daytime foraging, then another attempt. The barred rock (Skye) attacked the little girls again, primarily the Ameraucana (Louise) and I separated them again.

At this point I started reading more postings, and realized that if there was any chance for this to work I needed to relocate and enlarge the coop, which I did in early September. It wasn't that easy for a suburban coop with yard restraints. We also live in MT with harsh winters and I need the coop to have access to power for heated water. They now have about 100 sq ft outside and 18 sq ft inside although there are two levels inside so it is a bit more than that I think. I know even more space would be ideal, but I don't think I will be able to. I integrated them again, but Skye continues to attack Louise. Louise brings it on herself as she is the flightiest bird and if she even glimpses Skye she starts panic chirping and darting all over the place, which catches Skye's attention and invites an attack. I've seen Skye ignoring her but be attracted by the panic. When Skye attacks, she'll attack hard but briefly and then let up, but it's enough that Louise cowers in the coop most of the day when Skye goes outside, and then often sleeps in a nest box in terror. I haven't seen blood drawn since the first attacks in the smaller coop. I know they have to "work it out" but it's been four weeks now and it's not getting better, although as far as I can tell not getting worse either. Louise of course has stopped laying and I'm worried she's not eating. She probably lives in a low level state of terror. The speckled sussex is by no means integrated into the flock (she only hangs out with Louise) but the other chickens don't seem to attack her and I attribute it primarily to the fact that she's so calm. They do have both an inside and an outside food station. Oh let's see I also tried putting Skye in chicken jail for a couple of days and the flock dynamics were much better when she was gone but Skye was absolutely miserable when separated and everything went back to normal once she rejoined the flock.

I did order pinless peepers for Skye but need help getting them on so I haven't been able to do that yet. I am going to try that and maybe it will solve all my problems but otherwise I'm not sure what to do. I'm thinking that I may need to rehome Skye?! I'm just feeling guilty for creating an artificial environment with such constraints and causing the girls so much stress. I'm also not sure who will want to give a cranky 5 year old chicken a home. We have a severe cold snap coming the next several days and I'm worried if Louise feels like she can't stay in the coop and tries to weather the storm outside.

Anyway, any comments or thoughts are appreciated! Carly

 

[Ridgerunner]

The way I read this both pullets are 7 months old and laying. Your space is still tight but you've pretty much done what you can with your constraints.

To keep this short I'm going to recommend you solve for the peace of the flock. I think they are crowded and that may get worse when the snows and winter storms hit. Personally I'd permanently remove one of those two from the flock. Maybe isolate the pullet to see how the other pullet gets along before you make your decision.

I think it is a combination of room and personalities of those two. The hen does not like that pullet. You'll see a lot of posts on here where the peace of the flock improves dramatically when they are no longer crowded or you remove a troublemaker.

 

[Chicks in Suburbia]

Thank you for taking the time to reply! I guess I thought it was getting to this point but wanted another opinion. I also read the link in your profile (how much room do chickens need) and thought it was helpful. As noted I had increased the run area from about 45 sq ft to 100 sq ft hoping that would help, but I can't really increase their inside space right now as that would entail purchasing or building an entire new coop. I had 6 chickens in this coop for several years (we started with 6 and lost 2 over the years) so I hadn't considered the interior space an issue when we decided to add 2 more. They do have access to the run all day and night as the run is secure so I don't close the coop door (well, until we have -20 degree nights).

Sadly, this coop is even an improvement over the one I bought when we first got chickens, one that was perhaps 10 sq ft inside and marketed for 6-8 birds

 

[Alaskan]

It sounds like you have worked hatd to integrate, but the personalities are not going to work.

Since you have a small coop, can you roof the run? And for winter put blocks on one or 2 run walls to keep out wind and snow?

 

[Mrs. K]

Sometimes you just get birds that do not get along. It adds huge stress not only to the flock but to you. Drastically reducing your enjoyment of the flock. Many people on here have posted the pin-less peepers do help big time, but if not, you HAVE given it your best shot, and one of the birds needs to go.

Try pulling out the victim, that is a young bird, and may be much easier to sell. On the other hand, a 5 year old bird may not live much longer.

Mrs K

 

[Chicks in Suburbia]

Thank you again everyone. Somewhat reassuring to hear from others that I've tried! And that it's perhaps more common than I thought to have to re-home a bird. I will admit I did not research integration issues BEFORE getting our new chicks, which was my mistake and may have changed my decision. I will post back after trying the pinless peepers. Part of the run is covered and two sides of the run are 6 ft high fence so even if the little girls are outside they are not totally exposed for this next cold snap.

I did have one more question. I hear most suggesting to try to re-home the pullet (victim) but I'm a little concerned the aggression would just shift to the other pullet? She does not currently mix with the other four at all in the run although they seem to tolerate her if the accidentally end up in close proximity. I do understand the younger bird would be easier to re-home. But I suppose I also worry about sending her to a similar fate as she seems very dependent on the other pullet (she frequently hides or rests underneath her) and I'm not sure she would be able to establish herself in a new flock all by herself. Is the recommendation to try to remove the pullet primarily because she will be easier to re-home or am I missing something else about flock dynamics?

For what it's worth I'm not sure the aggressor (Skye) is truly the most dominant bird. The two Brahmas are BIG girls and pretty much do as they please and have first access to everything but except for a random attack or two don't seem to mind the little girls.

 

[Allthefloofs]

Sometimes it just doesn’t work, sometimes it just takes a lot of time. We had a lot of issues when I integrated a single polish in with our flock of 6 established hens. She was a pandemic rescue in March. It took probably 3 months for them to quit pulling feathers or chasing her, but now 6 months on things are good with all of them. Not to say you should suffer trying for that long. I had the time and resources to make that work and not everyone does, nor will everyone want to. Our polish had a tough time because of her nature (extremely panic stricken) and would do the same bouncing off the walls thing when any chicken looked at her wrong, which made the girls jump her. She slept by herself within viewing distance of the rest of the flock for probably the better part of 3 or 4 months before joining them without issue. Now she is mid level in the flock, there are two below her in rank. In our flock the most aggressive toward her were the lower ranking birds initially. Our alpha hen barely looked at her unless she tried to eat at the wrong time, but the last three in the order were jumping her and ripping feathers out if they could catch her.

 

[MarkJr]

Separate them.
Let the new girls get back into the swing of things. Introduce the milder older bird into flock and allow to integrate while nasty Nellie is practicing being a loner for a week or two.
Once Bonnie and Clyde become the 3 musketeers, add the fourth and see where it goes.

 

[Sueby]

I feel your pain. The pinless peepers may well help, totally worth a shot. I had a situation a lot like yours, my mean girl was not top hen & I think that happens a lot.

I tried pinless peepers on mean girl & it helped a ton, but she was not able to drink from the nipple waterers with them on & that's what I use here in the winter. When I took the peepers off she went back to her mean old self. I separated her out for months, the minute she went back in she was, again, her mean old self. My birds are carriers of a respiratory infection so I was, unfortunately, unable to rehome her. So in the end, after trying to get her to play nice for months, we culled her. The flock is so much better off without the stress, as am I not having to deal with the whole business.

Try the peepers, it may do the trick & I know some have had success in removing them eventually! But in the end, do what is best for the peace of the flock & don't feel guilty. I would personally get rid of the older bird, if possible, for a few reasons; first her age & second because, like you said, she may well just start picking on the other one. My mean girl was mean to everyone, she didn't discriminate.

Good luck!

ETA: Don't worry about Skye being mean when you give her away, she will start out at the bottom of the pecking order when she goes to her new home & she will have to work her way in, she probably won't be the same mean bird.

 

[aart]

My birds are carriers of a respiratory infection so I was, unfortunately, unable to rehome her.

Then I would not rehome any of them....because they are probably all carriers.
I'd be putting a couple of those older birds in the stew pot....not everyone ideal, but.