FOOD OPTIONS- THOUGHTS?

[Perris]

You might find this interesting; I posted it on another thread the other day and it came to mind when reading some of the responses you've received.

The Cambridge Encyclopaedia of Ornithology (CUP 1991) opens its chapter on Food with this:

"The ability to fly has been the dominant influence on avian adaptation, and the energy needed for flight has meant that birds tend to ingest and digest quantities of food of high nutritive value. Thus, although birds now exploit almost everything that lives upon, over or just beneath the earth's surface or in the shallow layers of its waters, they are, and have always been, predominantly animal-eating.

Most bird species eat arthropods, especially insects. Many of these insects are caught on the vegetation that they themselves consume, and this close association between plants and birds over millions of years has presumably given rise to the eating of seeds and berries, and to the sucking of nectar from blossom...

Arthropods, notably insects, provide sustenance for a greater number and variety of birds than any other plant or animal food...

Most birds are catholic in their tastes, taking a mixture or items, and stable populations are composed of omnivorous individuals that can adjust their habits when one type of seed, berry or insect, for instance, becomes scarce or another common. Many of the most successful species have been those living in close proximity to man...

Many birds also change their diet with age, and protein-rich foods such as insects are a common food for rapidly growing youngsters which are vegetarian as adults."

 

[U_Stormcrow]

In terms of protein levels, if you have a flock of all layers, either feed is acceptable, Both have very good Met and Lys levels compared to a "typical" layer formulation. Protein isn't my concern.

That's a LOT of calcium in the first feed, even for layers, unless they are prime age, high production layers of large+ eggs.

and **I AM NOT A VET** (once more for the people in the back) ***I AM NOT A VET*** (or any sort of specialist in avian illness/injury), but did your vet talk to you at all about Phosphorus levels??? Most biological processes (almost everything other than egg shell production, actually) use Calcium & Phosphorus in a 2 : 1 ratio. That first feed has LOTS of Ca, yes, but I'd much rather see a P level at 0.5%+, 0.6% would be better, plus good levels of vitamin D. The Vitamin D level in option one is much better, so...

I'd spend 5 min asking the vet if supplimenting feed 1 with a little calcium diphosphate would be beneficial to addressing the underlying pathology - or at least worth trying.

 

[Loving my girls]

I'd leave it the way you have it. Just make sure that the oyster shell containers always have large pieces in them and not just powder.
Why is your vet making that recommendation? The second feed IMO is much better.

I agree, I won’t buy feed with less than 16% protein and 20%, imo, is the dogs bubbles.
That’s the one I would choose.

 

[FrostRanger]

I'd stick with feed 2. You can try flaked oyster shell if they aren't eating crushed oyster shell as some birds prefer that. What breeds are your birds and how old are they?

 

[CluckingQueen]

In terms of protein levels, if you have a flock of all layers, either feed is acceptable, Both have very good Met and Lys levels compared to a "typical" layer formulation. Protein isn't my concern.

That's a LOT of calcium in the first feed, even for layers, unless they are prime age, high production layers of large+ eggs.

and **I AM NOT A VET** (once more for the people in the back) ***I AM NOT A VET*** (or any sort of specialist in avian illness/injury), but did your vet talk to you at all about Phosphorus levels??? Most biological processes (almost everything other than egg shell production, actually) use Calcium & Phosphorus in a 2 : 1 ratio. That first feed has LOTS of Ca, yes, but I'd much rather see a P level at 0.5%+, 0.6% would be better, plus good levels of vitamin D. The Vitamin D level in option one is much better, so...

I'd spend 5 min asking the vet if supplimenting feed 1 with a little calcium diphosphate would be beneficial to addressing the underlying pathology - or at least worth trying.

I was did mention the calcium levels in the food we currently feed (option 2).
He did say that the food they are getting fine but calcium does need to be supplemented with always available oyster shells (which I do) and/or calcium rich greens (kale, broccoli, turnips).
I am considering

I'd stick with feed 2. You can try flaked oyster shell if they aren't eating crushed oyster shell as some birds prefer that. What breeds are your birds and how old are they?

The hen that had issues is a
Wyandotte mix- 2yrs- It does seem like she prefers the smaller pieces of stuff.
The rest are:
Sapphire Gem 2yrs
Golden Comet 2yrs
2- Cinnamon Queens- 1yr
2- F2 Olive Eggers 7mths
2- Blue Ameracaunas 7 mths
(1 is a crossbeak)
1- Maran mix 7 mths
1- Ameracauna 2yrs

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I was did mention the calcium levels in the food we currently feed (option 2).
He did say that the food they are getting fine but calcium does need to be supplemented with always available oyster shells (which I do) and/or calcium rich greens (kale, broccoli, turnips).
I am considering

The hen that had issues is a
Wyandotte mix- 2yrs- It does seem like she prefers the smaller pieces of stuff.
The rest are:
Sapphire Gem 2yrs
Golden Comet 2yrs
2- Cinnamon Queens- 1yr
2- F2 Olive Eggers 7mths
2- Blue Ameracaunas 7 mths
(1 is a crossbeak)
1- Maran mix 7 mths
1- Ameracauna 2yrs

The Comets and queens are both production layers - though rate of lay will have dropped considerably as you enter year three with them.
A bunch of your others are "pet" not production. Nothing wrong with that, but it means the layer-type formula is really more than they need for calcium.

Given that flock mix, I'd go with feed two, continue w/ the free choice oyster shell as your basic calcium suppliment, and add a new bowl. Calcium Phosphate. Not Calcium Citrate (the only form humans can make much use of), not Calcium Carbonate (you already have that - its oyster shell), but Calcium Phosphate. You can find that in a decent pet store, or via Amazon, not likely to find it in the grocery or wally world. If you happen to be in one of those spots, you can also look for somethin w/ MCH as its calcium source - microcrystaline hydroxpatite. Ca10(PO4)6(OH)2 - its the common form of calcium in bone, your birds can definitely use it, and its 6 P to 10 Ca, so will help them to regulate thieir own Ca / P balance.

 

[CluckingQueen]

The Comets and queens are both production layers - though rate of lay will have dropped considerably as you enter year three with them.
A bunch of your others are "pet" not production. Nothing wrong with that, but it means the layer-type formula is really more than they need for calcium.

Given that flock mix, I'd go with feed two, continue w/ the free choice oyster shell as your basic calcium suppliment, and add a new bowl. Calcium Phosphate. Not Calcium Citrate (the only form humans can make much use of), not Calcium Carbonate (you already have that - its oyster shell), but Calcium Phosphate. You can find that in a decent pet store, or via Amazon, not likely to find it in the grocery or wally world. If you happen to be in one of those spots, you can also look for somethin w/ MCH as its calcium source - microcrystaline hydroxpatite. Ca10(PO4)6(OH)2 - its the common form of calcium in bone, your birds can definitely use it, and its 6 P to 10 Ca, so will help them to regulate thieir own Ca / P balance.

Thank you!

Yes, Comet & Queens have been excellent layers! Feed 2 is what we are currently using. I will for sure try find & offer the calcium phosphate.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Come back in two months, let us know how its working otu for you???

 

[CluckingQueen]

Come back in two months, let us know how its working otu

I will. This is a great place for information!
I hope I am able to get my girl well with the antibiotic & anti-inflammatory in the mean time.
Thank you!