For the MINIMALISTS - those who think less is more in chicken keeping - Please help

[Sueby]

If you want to hatch chicks roosters are a big help there. You need to be prepared for a 50% hatch rate of them being cockerels though & have a plan for them. Keeping multiple roosters can be a problem. & some can be very difficult, seems to be hit or miss if you get a jerk rooster or not. They can be tough, especially if you have little kids. I just personally have no need, I don’t hatch babies because I don’t want to have to cull the boys & I don’t free range so my girls don’t need the added protection a rooster would offer.

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

So I'm way late to this and don't have the brain power tonight to read through all 37 pages, but just wanted to let you know I built this same coop last summer (I recognized the photos!) And LOVE it. I actually have 2 of them, built side-by-side for double the space.

AWESOME! Thanks SO much for the reassurance. It does seem like the designer thought through all of the details. He's great to respond with questions and his plans are very organized and laid out well.

One thing I did not like is the nesting boxes that are in the plan. We built them, and my chickens just ended up sleeping in them and on them (and pooping on them), and they were hard to clean in and around. I have since removed them and just use these $5 cat litter boxes from Target. 2 of them fit side by side perfectly on the end of the coop under the egg door.

We are almost up to building the nest boxes. You have perfect timing. My husband said I cannot share a photo from the plans for copyright reasons. This one is okay to share.

For anyone else who may be able to chime in: The nest boxes are situated with 2 on top and 2 on the bottom. The roost bar is situated between the 2 boxes. You guys have schooled me that if the nest boxes are higher than the roosts, they will sleep in the nest boxes hence poop. I plan to close off 2 of them, I suppose the top 2 would be best? There is a space on top of the boxes where they could potentially hang out. We can put hardware cloth to close it off.

Great, on the cat litter alternative. Do you have any suggestions on how to adjust the plans to accomodate a better set up? We'll probably be building them today or tomorrow.

Also, the ceiling/roof setup in this plan is not the best use of vertical space or good for biosecurity. Instead of building the flat HWC "ceiling", we just closed it up on the sides with HWC. It saved us some money on lumber and we were able to use HWC scraps to fill in the sides. I love that birds can't hang out in between the ceiling and the roof, and it feels really open in the run.

This is interesting because I was thinking the same thing. We just did this part and I didn't realize it was open on to of the ceiling. I thought the whole thing was enclosed in hardware cloth. We aleady put the ceiling in, damn.

I did add a poop board to mine, and it works fine. However, I'm on the short side, and since the coop is already elevated, I end up having to stand on a cinder block to be able to scoop it.

We raised ours up 8" and lowered it 4" to accommodate deep bedding. I guess I can add this later once we see what we're working with.

Let me know if you want photos or more info about the modifications we did.

Yes, please please photos! Thank you!

 

[saysfaa]

Do you have any suggestions of roosters that are a little nicer and have a pleasant-ish voice?

Generally, bigger roosters have deeper voices that many people find more pleasant than the shriller bantam rooster voices. Their crows are louder, though.

I've heard bantams tend to have shorter duration per crow but crow more often.

There isn't a clear cut better. In my opinion, there is a worse - long crow breeds, for example, but you have to pay a lot extra for those breeds so don't need to worry about accidentally getting one.

 

[3KillerBs]

This is hilarious because our neighbors have some things going on in their yard that others would probably not like but we don't say anything. They are respectful to us and we are to them. The coop is right next to their house but she grew up with chickens so it sounds like they don't mind. My other neighbor who is very close but can't see the coop hates chickens. She thinks they're dirty and smelly.

Someone has a rooster down the street and I can hear it in the morning if I'm outside. I love it. It is such a calming sound. How loud would it sound to a next door neighbor, though?

Do you have any suggestions of roosters that are a little nicer and have a pleasant-ish voice?

The sound of a rooster's voice is highly individual.

As a *general* rule, the big boys have more resonant voices, but it's not universal. (And they all sound hilarious as teenagers with their voices cracking and breaking just like human teen boys).

The best crow in my flock came from a Light Brahma -- a BIG boy who was too heavy for some of the smaller hens.

Thanks for the info. Would it be bad to give them the same laying feed all year round and maybe not put the shells out or do you suggest definitely switching?

I just use all flock all the time and leave the oystershell out all the time. Keeping it simple.

Anyone want to offer the pros and cons of having a rooster?

The only reason you really *need* a rooster is if you're breeding. You don't even need one to hatch eggs as replacements because you can buy fertile eggs from people who do have them.

Various reasons people have roosters include:

• Liking the look of a rooster. They're beautiful creatures.
• Liking the sound of the crow. I do, and I don't even mind the boys in Camp Cockerel 15 feet from my bedroom window (I grew up in an industrial area so I think that freight trains and aircraft are noisy, not roosters).
• Enjoyment of the natural behavior of the flock with a rooster present. For example, except for the chronic escapees, I no longer have to round up late-staying girls at night because my roosters put them to roost for me. In fact, when I catch escapees and toss them into the pen the boys come out and herd them into the coop.
• Protection. Kinda-sorta. Not many will actually take on a predator and fewer will win that fight. But they are a good alert system -- though in the absence of a rooster one of the top hens may take on that role.
• The more natural dominance structure of a flock with a rooster *may* reduce bullying. I think it helps with the integration of chicks because I've seen chicks run under a rooster to escape a hen that was chasing them and seen the roosters break up conflicts both between hens and between younger cockerels.

Cons:

• People who didn't grow up in an industrial area and have their first apartments 100 yards or so from a 6-track mainline freight route and the entrance to a steel mill may find them too noisy for comfort.
• There's no getting around the fact that some are aggressive and thus dangerous (especially to young children).
• If there is a rooster in the flock the hens will not look to you as their leader. If having cuddle-pets is important to you then a rooster will interfere with that.
• Some roosters, especially in their hormonal youth, are rough with the hens and simply bad at their job.

I have often seen it recommended that even if you intend to get a rooster you should wait a year and establish your hen flock first. That gets your feet wet with chickens and your system worked out before you have to deal with potential rooster issues.

Then either let the ladies raise a young cockerel in order to teach him good chicken manners or get an adult rooster raised in a mixed age flock who is being rehomed because he's simply too nice a guy to kill.

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

If you want to hatch chicks roosters are a big help there. You need to be prepared for a 50% hatch rate of them being cockerels though & have a plan for them. Keeping multiple roosters can be a problem. & some can be very difficult, seems to be hit or miss if you get a jerk rooster or not. They can be tough, especially if you have little kids. I just personally have no need, I don’t hatch babies because I don’t want to have to cull the boys & I don’t free range so my girls don’t need the added protection a rooster would offer.

Hatching them would be helpful because they would know you from the start?

We wouldn't want multiple. Just one guy.

Right, the difficult part is my problem. I've got a 6 year old and the kids play at my house a lot.

Thanks for your thoughts

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

Generally, bigger roosters have deeper voices that many people find more pleasant than the shriller bantam rooster voices. Their crows are louder, though.

I've heard bantams tend to have shorter duration per crow but crow more often.

There isn't a clear cut better. In my opinion, there is a worse - long crow breeds, for example, but you have to pay a lot extra for those breeds so don't need to worry about accidentally getting one.

Great info, thanks

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

The sound of a rooster's voice is highly individual.

As a *general* rule, the big boys have more resonant voices, but it's not universal. (And they all sound hilarious as teenagers with their voices cracking and breaking just like human teen boys).

The best crow in my flock came from a Light Brahma -- a BIG boy who was too heavy for some of the smaller hens.

Would it be wise to purchase an adult rooster so you know his personality and sound?

I just use all flock all the time and leave the oystershell out all the time. Keeping it simple.

Simple is my thing. Love this thanks.

The only reason you really *need* a rooster is if you're breeding. You don't even need one to hatch eggs as replacements because you can buy fertile eggs from people who do have them.

We don't play to do any of this. I think we just like the roosters. Their assertiveness, protection and of course their crow. It wouldn't be to breed. It's probably not wise for us but we're keeping the idea there. Maybe after we figure out what the hell we're doing ha ha.

Various reasons people have roosters include:

• Liking the look of a rooster. They're beautiful creatures.
• Liking the sound of the crow. I do, and I don't even mind the boys in Camp Cockerel 15 feet from my bedroom window (I grew up in an industrial area so I think that freight trains and aircraft are noisy, not roosters).
• Enjoyment of the natural behavior of the flock with a rooster present. For example, except for the chronic escapees, I no longer have to round up late-staying girls at night because my roosters put them to roost for me. In fact, when I catch escapees and toss them into the pen the boys come out and herd them into the coop.
• Protection. Kinda-sorta. Not many will actually take on a predator and fewer will win that fight. But they are a good alert system -- though in the absence of a rooster one of the top hens may take on that role.
• The more natural dominance structure of a flock with a rooster *may* reduce bullying. I think it helps with the integration of chicks because I've seen chicks run under a rooster to escape a hen that was chasing them and seen the roosters break up conflicts both between hens and between younger cockerels.

I do love these pros. A lot.

Cons:

• People who didn't grow up in an industrial area and have their first apartments 100 yards or so from a 6-track mainline freight route and the entrance to a steel mill may find them too noisy for comfort.
• There's no getting around the fact that some are aggressive and thus dangerous (especially to young children).

How often do you get a mean rooster?

• If there is a rooster in the flock the hens will not look to you as their leader. If having cuddle-pets is important to you then a rooster will interfere with that.

This is important to me.

• Some roosters, especially in their hormonal youth, are rough with the hens and simply bad at their job.

I have often seen it recommended that even if you intend to get a rooster you should wait a year and establish your hen flock first. That gets your feet wet with chickens and your system worked out before you have to deal with potential rooster issues.

Then either let the ladies raise a young cockerel in order to teach him good chicken manners or get an adult rooster raised in a mixed age flock who is being rehomed because he's simply too nice a guy to kill.

Yes, we wouldn't even consider it for a long while. Great advice on the cockerel or rehomed option. I really like this.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’ve given up on medicated as my chicks always get coccidiosis anyway, I have a tough variant in my soil.

I'll copy something I wrote about medicated feed and coccidiosis. Some strains are stronger than others. You might get something useful out of it. The parts I'm thinking of are keeping the brooder extra dry and introducing that protozoa early so they build immunity. Good luck with it, coccidiosis is a pain.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have since removed them and just use these $5 cat litter boxes from Target.

Yes, cat litter boxes, not cat litter buckets. I used a cat litter bucket as a nest, which worked OK, but the top was only 7-1/2" x 11-1/2". When a broody hen hatched chicks the top was so small when the first chicks to hatch climbed up on top of Mama that they missed the nest when they fell off and fell 4' to the coop floor. Four different times I picked a chick up and put it back in the nest with Mama. Probably the same chick. No, it was not hurt in that fall, they are a lot tougher than people imagine.

 

[Sueby]

I'll copy something I wrote about medicated feed and coccidiosis. Some strains are stronger than others. You might get something useful out of it. The parts I'm thinking of are keeping the brooder extra dry and introducing that protozoa early so they build immunity. Good luck with it, coccidiosis is a pain.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

Thank you for that. I do put chunks of dirt & grass in there for them & keep the brooder/feed/water clean but not obsessively clean. I brood outside so they hit the ground pretty quickly here & I can’t control much out there, it’s usually pretty wet here in the spring. Nothing I’ve tried has ever helped so I’ve just given up with the medicated feed & treat them with corid when I start to see bloody poops. They never get lethargic, their only symptom is bloody poop. Not really a big deal, they do fine with the corid. This year I’ve got pol pullets coming instead of chicks & I’ve never had to treat pol birds so thats even easier!