For those of you out there that hate King snakes (black snakes)

[RM44]

I see from your link that you have water snakes too. Did you look at the pics?

My husband and I just bought land up in middle Tennessee, and it has a private lake on it. When we've been up there visiting, there is a huge (well, between 3 & 4 feet long) snake that lives on the bank by an old run down dock under an old piece of rubber. The first 2 times we saw it we were convinced it was a water moccasin, but we weren't prepared to dispatch it. We went back up there last weekend with a pistol loaded with snake shot (yep, he found snake shot for his .357) and decided not to discharge the weapon since we hadn't closed on the land until later in the day, so again, not prepared. After the third or fourth look, we started thinking it was a water snake, not a water moccasin. Now I'm not sure, so it gets to live until I can trap it in a trash can or something and verify that it's venomous. And yes, I dispatch all venomous snakes. I have children, pets and livestock and we don't want to be bitten walking around on our own property. But any non-poisonous snake is always welcomed.

 

[Thamnophis]

Almost certainly a norther or common water snake. When scared they flatten, producing a very triangular head. water snakes do not rattle their tail like some other species do.

Rat snakes can really buzz their tail producing a startling rattle like sound if it is in contact with dry leaves, etc. You wouldn't believe how many people think they saw a rattle snake when it was just a buzzing rat snake!

For the person in Tennessee - yours is probably a harmless watersnake too. See the water snake moccasin info for Tennessee here:


http://www.tennsnakes.org/

 

[RM44]

Quote:
Yep, been all over that site and some others too. But the darn water snakes and cottonmouths look so similar it's really got me puzzled. The real estate folks and the neighbors across the street tell us cottonmouths don't live that high up (1800 feet elevation). Do you by any chance know if that is true? I can't find mention of it anywhere in all of my googling?

 

[redhen]

Quote:
Maybe thats it! Except the head was SO trianguler and fat/big...
but it was the same dusky black color as the water snake pic!
But what about the light pattern under the black on it that i saw? Do the water snakes have that also..its hard to tell from the pic...

ETA: i see it now! Yup.. it WAS a water snake!..thanks!!!!!!!!!
So glad i didnt kill it then if it was just a water snake...!

 

[Thamnophis]

Quote:
I'm sure they're correct. Moccasins are creatures of lowlands.

Water moccasins (cotton mouths) are generally slow moving snakes. I've often walked right up to them and they do little except tilt their heads back and flash the white inside of their mouths. They can lay with their heads back and mouths gapped open for a long time, otherwise motionless.

water snakes tend to be quick snakes - they dive off logs when basking as you one gets near them. Water snakes coil and strike when they feel cornered and if you grab them a big one will cut you up pretty well, but not deeply. Its not much more than getting scratched by raspberry thorns.

If you touch the snake with a pole/rake or something and it tilt it's head back and holds its mouth wide open, its a moccasin. If not, it's a watersnake. And thanks for not killing the harmless ones!

BTW, they eat almost only slow moving (minnoes and bullheads) and sick fish (as well as frogs) so they do not impact game fish much at all.

 

[TwistedSerpent]

Often especially when I have babies I've hatched it sounds like I have a room full of rattlers when I walk by. I work with a lot of ratsnakes, in my especiance its them and the pines/bulls/gophers that seem to have the strongest reflex to do that, my kings all prefered just to shoot poop at me. All my babies do it much more then adults but thats moreso becoming used to a captive way of life and not seeing you as a threat, although some are just jerks and do it anyways. Just like chickens once you get past instincts snakes all have their own indiviual personalities.

I second a big thanks to everyone who waits to identify and leaves the harmless ones go!

 

[fl_deb]

Thank you so much for sharing all this information with us!

I for one would rather arm myself with the facts than a gun any day when it comes to snakes. I grew up with lots of water moccasins, but learned about the benefits of having "good snakes" around the home as an adult. Unfortunately, my "snake relocator" has move to a less populated area of Florida, but at lease I do not scream as loud or as long as I use to.

LOL Not that that did any good, although one neighbor grabed his gun and came running thinking I was being attacked by someone because of my blood churdling scream one day! I got teased for a long time about the "vicious baby black racer" I had dumped out of the aluminum post onto my own feet! Poor thing couldn't see because he was shedding, and was striking at me in defense and I had nowhere to run because of the two piles of aluminum shed materials and my own 6 ft fence, but boy did I scream!

So, if I have multiple black racers, will I be spared the sight of a black or orange rat snake being wrapped around my coop? Or do they share ranges? I understand racers to be territorial.

 

[journey11]

What a creepy pic. I didn't know they'd eat other snakes. I've had an egg stolen by a black snake a time or two. But I let them be, because they keep us free of mice. No mice in the barn means no mice in the house. The black snakes keep to themselves...only see them once in a while. I leave them to do their thing. I'm not afraid of the garter snakes, little green snakes, black snakes (even though they can get really BIG)--the ones I know are not poisonous. But you BETTER know what a poisonous one looks like, huh.

 

[Blueggchick]

Quote:
I'm sure they're correct. Moccasins are creatures of lowlands.

Water moccasins (cotton mouths) are generally slow moving snakes. I've often walked right up to them and they do little except tilt their heads back and flash the white inside of their mouths. They can lay with their heads back and mouths gapped open for a long time, otherwise motionless.

water snakes tend to be quick snakes - they dive off logs when basking as you one gets near them. Water snakes coil and strike when they feel cornered and if you grab them a big one will cut you up pretty well, but not deeply. Its not much more than getting scratched by raspberry thorns.

If you touch the snake with a pole/rake or something and it tilt it's head back and holds its mouth wide open, its a moccasin. If not, it's a watersnake. And thanks for not killing the harmless ones!

BTW, they eat almost only slow moving (minnoes and bullheads) and sick fish (as well as frogs) so they do not impact game fish much at all.

What state do you live in? The moccasins here where I live in SE Louisiana are normally very fast and agressive! I am glad to know that some moccasins are not agressive because every one I have seen has been. They are a fatter snake. Kind of stout in sized compared to a water snake I don't know if it's true or not because I don't stick around to find out...LOL, but supposibly there is a scent they put out that sorta smells like a cucumber. The water snakes here in SELA are also quick but tend to be longer in length, and not as stout. We also of course have the Copperheads who my husband has been bitten by before, hiding under a board. He actually almost lost his index finger and thumb out of the ordeal, but was able to keep it after a week in the hospital. It was horrible! Exactly as you seen on TV as they mark the poison as it goes up your arm. His hand and arm got HUGE until it finally subsided all the way up to his underarm. He still does not have much feelings in part of his hand, and can not pick up small things with his first finger and pinky from not being able to feel anything, and not having much meat on the pad of his finger left from the bite. I am paronoid of snakes but respect them. I will leave them alone if they leave me alone...LOL. DL to this day adores them and will gently move them away from around the home. Just to admire and relocate them. Great topic everyone!!!

 

[ivan3]

Older thread, but I've been away so as to support this habit

Thamnophis wrote: The smooth green snake pic is actually a rough green snake.

That is my opinion as well (`refed' as `scaley' in this long ago thread in which I posted same shot: https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3609&p=3 ). Whether the individual (wildlife management grad working with Audobon Society) who originally ID'ed it as a smooth (was near ground and not quite a foot long) simply wanted to emphasize the `rarity' to keep us yokels from offing anything slithering green through the trees is a possibility. The `big' greens are obviously `rough':

The first 2 pics are black rat snakes. The 3rd is indeed a kingsnake.

Another shot of the same `type' of snake was IDed by MU as Prairie King (head seemed `rattish' but way too thin and nothing like the coloration on our local Black Rats).

My first guess was Great Plains Rat Snake (grey variants aplenty). The only shot I have of one is a little guy down by the pond (with little resemblance to adult):

This little Black is no longer than the one I originally posted up (in the container):

The immature Blacks, here, are nearly white with very distinct black `chevrons' with much more red laterally.
That said, I have one shot that I took near St. Genevieve, MO., back in `94 that illustrates transition in a darker variant:

I'd be very interested in seeing a shot of a grey variant immature Black Rat, of similiar mid body circumference, 18"-24" in length, such as the one I posted (withholding judgment).

The Prairie King below was whacked by a car, down by our mail box, last month.

And, just to come full circle (tail in mouth, so to speak) another shot of a slightly older Speckled King (losing the striping) with a possible fungal disease on its back. The head shot is to emphasize the red iridescence on these guys:

ed:sp​