for those that use deep litter method...please advise me

[Kuntry Klucker]

Hi,

I am interested in learning more about the deep litter method.

Background:
- I am a first time chicken owner.
- I have 13 hens and 1 roo
- I have an enclosed pen and run.

This is how I have been cleaning my coop...
1. take out all old shavings
2. use leaf blower to blow out all dust and hidden poop
3. use hose to spray out coop
4. spray down coop with bleach solution
5. use hose again to wash out bleach solution
6. put down insect dust on coop floor
7. put clean shaving in coop.

Here is a pic of my coop and run if helpful.

I do this every month. Not only is it wearing me out but the used litter is starting to stack
up around here. There has got to be an easier way.

I ran across the deep litter method, don't know much about it. My questions are...
1. How does this work.
2. Do you really only have to clean the coop 1-2 times a year?
3. How much litter do you add when adding new litter?
4. How healthy is this for the chickens?

please, please explain to me how this method works. I need something that is much more simple.
Thanks

 

[JerseyFresh]

Another vote for the DL method, and the not over-thinking things too much method in general.

I've read all the posts in this thread and I think the OP (and maybe someone else) might have been suggesting DL for the run as well. Pine shavings in a run will turn into a stinky mess after the first rain. I use dried leaves and the occasional bag of mowed grass. Drainage is important for your run and some people like sand. DL is only intended for the enclosed coop and should not be exposed to rain. The only time my coop really stank was when it got wet.

Chickens really are the easiest animals to keep. Give them enough space (inside and out), ventilation, food/water, clean the coop out twice a year, and collect the eggs. What's not to love?
I'm not bashing the people who treat thier chickens as members of thier families. It's a ton of work and that's totally up to them, and they're certainly not making the world a worse place

Personally, I like to keep things simple and I see my chickens as intersting farm animals that give me eggs. I try and give them the environment that lets them be the best chickens they can be, and frankly it isn't all that complicated.

Good luck with it all. Most of this stuff gets worked out over time and I've managed to avoid some of the harder lessons from the good people here on BYC. I'm sure you will too.

Alan.

 

[Daisy8s]

Thanks for all of the information on your DL method! I'm about to build a new coop using deep litter, and have a couple of questions. If I understand your setup correctly, you have a large coop, no run, and let your birds free-range? My plan is to have a combined coop/covered run under a single roof (similar to this) and do deep litter in the run all the time, and in the coop during the winter months. (I plan to have a hybrid floor that's wire in the summer, solid-with-bedding in the winter, for maximum ventilation in the warm months. Our Virginia summers are hot and humid.) I've gotten a lot of inspiration from this blog post: http://www.nwedible.com/2012/02/the-real-bounty-of-the-coo.html that talks about the amazing amount of lovely compost that deep litter creates.

So here are my two questions: you say that straw really doesn't perform well for you, but this blogger swears by it for her run. Is it the difference between the run vs an indoor coop? Different climate? Second: some DLM users rave about the finished compost coming out of the coop. Others say that their wood shavings come out looking brand-new-- so obviously they *haven't* composted, right? What's the difference? I want compost, not still-brand-new-after-6-months shavings! Is it the DE use-- maybe people using it have fresh-looking and -smelling shavings, but aren't getting any microbial action?

Glad to be of help. First, I actually have a pretty small coop (6x5 with 6-8 chickens at a time). And, yes, they free range every day over a 1/4 of an acre except in bad winter weather--then they choose to go into a 10x12, open air, covered run.

I think climate, and how people define "straw" may be part of the confusion. There are many people that look at hay or grass and call it straw because they think everything that comes in a bale is the same thing. I'm talking about the stalks of wheat or oat type plants--long, yellow, hollow, stalks.

I don't use straw because I feel it holds the poop up in the air for maximum smelliness. The stalks are too long and thick for chickens to easily turn under when scratching. For example, the covered run that my flock uses in bad winter weather doubles as a giant compost bin. This fall I hauled in 10+ wheelbarrow loads of manure and straw from my neighbor's horses. Even with the flock being on that surface for a few weeks it's already a place I don't want to walk since I'll be stepping on raw chicken manure. In contract, inside my coop (where they spend more time eating/sleeping/roosting) the floor looks cleaner because it's deep in dried leaves or grass.

One big, important thing I just realized. Every day I throw in a couple handfuls of kitchen scraps (fruit and veg peelings, some bread, coffee grounds, etc.). I throw this stuff right under the roosts where the poop accumulates the most. As the chickens scratch up the scraps they naturally turn under the poop. I think this is an important step--getting the birds to turn under fresh manure daily.

I agree with you that it's likely the people who say their wood shavings come out looking like new are also using DE. The whole point of food-grade DE is to provide a drying, anti-caking agent. DE is the antithesis of compost.

Or, maybe wood shavings just don't compost well. It doesn't seem like they would, based on my experience with composting and how little even the smallest twigs degrade in a year's time (but, I do cold composting). I use dried leaves and grass from my own lawn. Simply empty the lawnmower bags onto a tarp laid in the sun, stir to promote drying on the second day, bag up on the third day. It's free, very little labor, and makes the sweetest-smelling bedding! (has to be absolutely dry, though, to avoid mold) Seven of those huge construction-style black garbage bags lasts about 9 months for me.

As for the poster before mine who said you need water to compost in a coop. That isn't true. The moisture in the manure, plus the food scraps adds a lot. I only add new bedding every 6 weeks in summer and 4 weeks in winter so that's a good "brown" to "green" ratio that promotes composting. True story: in January I watched steam rising from the bedding as a hen was digging. It's deep, springy and warm...perfect winter bedding!

Ultimately you'll have to just try it out for yourself. Climate, ventilation, bird habits...all will be factors unique to your flock. I would strongly recommend seeding your litter with a few inches of finished compost from an old heap to introduce all the good microbes. Other than that you'll just have to see what works for you!

Final note: when you do the clean-out in spring the top 6 inches or so won't have had time to compost yet. Stick that layer somewhere to finish off and then keep digging for the good stuff down below. My first year I found live earthworms in the very bottom!

 

[featherz]

Hi. I use the deep litter method on my coop. I change it twice a year. Pretty much you keep adding shavings, keeping it stirred up, plus add in helpers if it starts to smell, or even before. I use DE/Sweet PDZ and stir it up every few days. Some people use hydrated lime. You can also throw BOSS in the shavings to let the chickens stir it up. Just changed my shavings after six months and they look almost too clean to compost.

read through this:

http://www.plamondon.com/faq_deep_litter.html

I've never had any cocci problems, fwiw.

 

[earth_ma]

I am by no means an expert but I"ve used deep litter (or tractors) with my chickens for the past five years and love it! You are wearing yourself out; I need a nap after reading what all you do. I never take out all of the litter when I clean it out and it goes into my compost pit to sit and cook till time to go in the garden. I use leaves from fall as litter ....if I run out I use a very thin layer of straw. AND very important: I put down lime (pellets) especially under the roost. I never let it start smelling like amonia because the human nose can only detect amonia at 25ppm and lung damage in chickens happens at considerably less than this. My coop is well ventilated and it looks as though yours is too. Not sure how other folks feel about bleach but the only thing I use it for is the RARE case of algae in a waterer. Bleach kills the much needed organisms for the deep litter compost to work. I don't use anything but diatomaceous earth for parasites for the same reason and because I think its better for my chickens and my family. I hope this helps. Don't work so hard ....enjoy your chickens more

 

[clairabean]

No flies, because the poop gets dehydrated and then turned under. It does not lay ont he surface, collecting, attracting flies.

 

[Kuntry Klucker]

Quote:
Wow! I can hardly believe that the coop only needs cleaned once to twice a year! That for me is amazing!
Thank you for your info, I am going to try this. Instead of cleaning the coop this month, I am just going to add
shavings. You mentioned that you have never had the need for DE. That is good to know, because getting a hold
of some out where I live is turning out to be difficult to impossible. Thanks again.

 

[WoodlandWoman]

You don't need to use DE in the litter at all. Just shavings will work fine.

 

[Daisy8s]

Thank you! I'll be starting the DLM tomorrow. Do I sprinkle the DE onto the shavings and then mix it all in or let the chickens do the mixing?

I would advise against use DE at all. I used the DLM successfully for a year (very dry, no smell). Then, at the start of my second year with it I added some DE and it ruined the litter. I noticed an increased smell and the bedding seemed soggy. I did some more reading and realized I'd just killed off all the healthy bugs/organisms that were composting the litter. (Just as people advise against bleach, so DE causes the same problem)

To cure the problematic DE layer I added dirt from an old compost pile to reseed the littler with healthy organisms, and then began adding litter on top of the dirt. It did solve the problem. Then, a few weeks ago I did my yearly clean out. At the top the littler was great (it gets up to 24 inches deep). I kept cleaning out and eventually reached the DE layer. That layer, about 9 months later, was still wet and smelly. Nothing had composted. But, beneath that layer the litter looked good again.

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I'd be skeptical, but I know it was the DE layer that didn't compost based on marks on the wall and how I know they correlate to the calendar.

One note: I keep reading people's anecdotes about how they do DLM and I see a correlation between those who use straw and DE. I have found straw to be terrible--it doesn't break down and instead holds the poop up, resisting being turned under. Those who use smaller bedding particles like pine shavings, leaves, grass, and even alfalfa seem to have a better result with their chickens naturally turning under the fresh poop as they scratch, thereby keeping the litter aerated so it can break down the poop.

So, if you have to use straw then I guess DE is a good idea, but don't expect any composting to happen. If, however, you can use bedding that is easily turned under and easily compostable I think DE undoes a natural process that eliminates smell and dampness on its own.

 

[ChickenLife]

In response to # 127 & 129 posts
I see that the DE is a problem, and I see how it would stop the composting. Makes good sense.
I was really wondering how the compost harvest would work and then how to leaving a starter litter in the pen. You explain it will.
I got the idea now thank you very much for the DLM, it is the key.