for those that use deep litter method...please advise me

[JacqueOCS]

For the DLM, how deep are the shavings for the summer months? Also, how much DE do you add to start off with? Thank you for any info

 

[ozark hen]

I try to keep at least 6" for cooler in the summer & warmer in the winter. I just remove droppings monthly under roosts & replace with DE & fresh shavings

 

[JacqueOCS]

Thank you! I'll be starting the DLM tomorrow. Do I sprinkle the DE onto the shavings and then mix it all in or let the chickens do the mixing?

 

[WoodlandWoman]

You don't need to use DE in the litter at all. Just shavings will work fine.

 

[ozark hen]

Thank you! I'll be starting the DLM tomorrow. Do I sprinkle the DE onto the shavings and then mix it all in or let the chickens do the mixing?

Like the above poster said, you don't need to use DE in the shavings but I usually do (not always). You can also use DE if the it starts to smell, just sprinkle all over the top of shavings, the chickens will do the rest.

 

[Daisy8s]

Thank you! I'll be starting the DLM tomorrow. Do I sprinkle the DE onto the shavings and then mix it all in or let the chickens do the mixing?

I would advise against use DE at all. I used the DLM successfully for a year (very dry, no smell). Then, at the start of my second year with it I added some DE and it ruined the litter. I noticed an increased smell and the bedding seemed soggy. I did some more reading and realized I'd just killed off all the healthy bugs/organisms that were composting the litter. (Just as people advise against bleach, so DE causes the same problem)

To cure the problematic DE layer I added dirt from an old compost pile to reseed the littler with healthy organisms, and then began adding litter on top of the dirt. It did solve the problem. Then, a few weeks ago I did my yearly clean out. At the top the littler was great (it gets up to 24 inches deep). I kept cleaning out and eventually reached the DE layer. That layer, about 9 months later, was still wet and smelly. Nothing had composted. But, beneath that layer the litter looked good again.

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I'd be skeptical, but I know it was the DE layer that didn't compost based on marks on the wall and how I know they correlate to the calendar.

One note: I keep reading people's anecdotes about how they do DLM and I see a correlation between those who use straw and DE. I have found straw to be terrible--it doesn't break down and instead holds the poop up, resisting being turned under. Those who use smaller bedding particles like pine shavings, leaves, grass, and even alfalfa seem to have a better result with their chickens naturally turning under the fresh poop as they scratch, thereby keeping the litter aerated so it can break down the poop.

So, if you have to use straw then I guess DE is a good idea, but don't expect any composting to happen. If, however, you can use bedding that is easily turned under and easily compostable I think DE undoes a natural process that eliminates smell and dampness on its own.

 

[Weasleymum]

I would advise against use DE at all. I used the DLM successfully for a year (very dry, no smell). Then, at the start of my second year with it I added some DE and it ruined the litter. I noticed an increased smell and the bedding seemed soggy. I did some more reading and realized I'd just killed off all the healthy bugs/organisms that were composting the litter. (Just as people advise against bleach, so DE causes the same problem)

To cure the problematic DE layer I added dirt from an old compost pile to reseed the littler with healthy organisms, and then began adding litter on top of the dirt. It did solve the problem. Then, a few weeks ago I did my yearly clean out. At the top the littler was great (it gets up to 24 inches deep). I kept cleaning out and eventually reached the DE layer. That layer, about 9 months later, was still wet and smelly. Nothing had composted. But, beneath that layer the litter looked good again.

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I'd be skeptical, but I know it was the DE layer that didn't compost based on marks on the wall and how I know they correlate to the calendar.

One note: I keep reading people's anecdotes about how they do DLM and I see a correlation between those who use straw and DE. I have found straw to be terrible--it doesn't break down and instead holds the poop up, resisting being turned under. Those who use smaller bedding particles like pine shavings, leaves, grass, and even alfalfa seem to have a better result with their chickens naturally turning under the fresh poop as they scratch, thereby keeping the litter aerated so it can break down the poop.

So, if you have to use straw then I guess DE is a good idea, but don't expect any composting to happen. If, however, you can use bedding that is easily turned under and easily compostable I think DE undoes a natural process that eliminates smell and dampness on its own.

Thanks for all of the information on your DL method! I'm about to build a new coop using deep litter, and have a couple of questions. If I understand your setup correctly, you have a large coop, no run, and let your birds free-range? My plan is to have a combined coop/covered run under a single roof (similar to this) and do deep litter in the run all the time, and in the coop during the winter months. (I plan to have a hybrid floor that's wire in the summer, solid-with-bedding in the winter, for maximum ventilation in the warm months. Our Virginia summers are hot and humid.) I've gotten a lot of inspiration from this blog post: http://www.nwedible.com/2012/02/the-real-bounty-of-the-coo.html that talks about the amazing amount of lovely compost that deep litter creates.

So here are my two questions: you say that straw really doesn't perform well for you, but this blogger swears by it for her run. Is it the difference between the run vs an indoor coop? Different climate? Second: some DLM users rave about the finished compost coming out of the coop. Others say that their wood shavings come out looking brand-new-- so obviously they *haven't* composted, right? What's the difference? I want compost, not still-brand-new-after-6-months shavings! Is it the DE use-- maybe people using it have fresh-looking and -smelling shavings, but aren't getting any microbial action?

 

[mpguay]

Quote:

Shavings and poop out of a covered coop is not composted. It needs water , air and age. DE shouldnt have anything to do with it.
I add my coop cleanings to the compost pile and let it age.

 

[Daisy8s]

Thanks for all of the information on your DL method! I'm about to build a new coop using deep litter, and have a couple of questions. If I understand your setup correctly, you have a large coop, no run, and let your birds free-range? My plan is to have a combined coop/covered run under a single roof (similar to this) and do deep litter in the run all the time, and in the coop during the winter months. (I plan to have a hybrid floor that's wire in the summer, solid-with-bedding in the winter, for maximum ventilation in the warm months. Our Virginia summers are hot and humid.) I've gotten a lot of inspiration from this blog post: http://www.nwedible.com/2012/02/the-real-bounty-of-the-coo.html that talks about the amazing amount of lovely compost that deep litter creates.

So here are my two questions: you say that straw really doesn't perform well for you, but this blogger swears by it for her run. Is it the difference between the run vs an indoor coop? Different climate? Second: some DLM users rave about the finished compost coming out of the coop. Others say that their wood shavings come out looking brand-new-- so obviously they *haven't* composted, right? What's the difference? I want compost, not still-brand-new-after-6-months shavings! Is it the DE use-- maybe people using it have fresh-looking and -smelling shavings, but aren't getting any microbial action?

Glad to be of help. First, I actually have a pretty small coop (6x5 with 6-8 chickens at a time). And, yes, they free range every day over a 1/4 of an acre except in bad winter weather--then they choose to go into a 10x12, open air, covered run.

I think climate, and how people define "straw" may be part of the confusion. There are many people that look at hay or grass and call it straw because they think everything that comes in a bale is the same thing. I'm talking about the stalks of wheat or oat type plants--long, yellow, hollow, stalks.

I don't use straw because I feel it holds the poop up in the air for maximum smelliness. The stalks are too long and thick for chickens to easily turn under when scratching. For example, the covered run that my flock uses in bad winter weather doubles as a giant compost bin. This fall I hauled in 10+ wheelbarrow loads of manure and straw from my neighbor's horses. Even with the flock being on that surface for a few weeks it's already a place I don't want to walk since I'll be stepping on raw chicken manure. In contract, inside my coop (where they spend more time eating/sleeping/roosting) the floor looks cleaner because it's deep in dried leaves or grass.

One big, important thing I just realized. Every day I throw in a couple handfuls of kitchen scraps (fruit and veg peelings, some bread, coffee grounds, etc.). I throw this stuff right under the roosts where the poop accumulates the most. As the chickens scratch up the scraps they naturally turn under the poop. I think this is an important step--getting the birds to turn under fresh manure daily.

I agree with you that it's likely the people who say their wood shavings come out looking like new are also using DE. The whole point of food-grade DE is to provide a drying, anti-caking agent. DE is the antithesis of compost.

Or, maybe wood shavings just don't compost well. It doesn't seem like they would, based on my experience with composting and how little even the smallest twigs degrade in a year's time (but, I do cold composting). I use dried leaves and grass from my own lawn. Simply empty the lawnmower bags onto a tarp laid in the sun, stir to promote drying on the second day, bag up on the third day. It's free, very little labor, and makes the sweetest-smelling bedding! (has to be absolutely dry, though, to avoid mold) Seven of those huge construction-style black garbage bags lasts about 9 months for me.

As for the poster before mine who said you need water to compost in a coop. That isn't true. The moisture in the manure, plus the food scraps adds a lot. I only add new bedding every 6 weeks in summer and 4 weeks in winter so that's a good "brown" to "green" ratio that promotes composting. True story: in January I watched steam rising from the bedding as a hen was digging. It's deep, springy and warm...perfect winter bedding!

Ultimately you'll have to just try it out for yourself. Climate, ventilation, bird habits...all will be factors unique to your flock. I would strongly recommend seeding your litter with a few inches of finished compost from an old heap to introduce all the good microbes. Other than that you'll just have to see what works for you!

Final note: when you do the clean-out in spring the top 6 inches or so won't have had time to compost yet. Stick that layer somewhere to finish off and then keep digging for the good stuff down below. My first year I found live earthworms in the very bottom!

 

[chickengirl280]

Thanks for asking, i was going to ask the same thing