Force them in the coop at night, or let them stay in run?

[PinkMinnow]

Hello!

I have 6 girls in this coop/run combo.

When I first had them, they would go up in the box at night, and I'd close the door. But after a while, I've learned that they are safe from predators at night (mesh both dug deep, and as an apron around the bottom), so I stopped closing them in.

Later, I added a cross bar up in the apex of the outside run. This is a little higher than the ones in the coop/box. So they started staying out there at night. It's above the roof line so you can't see it here, but it runs lengthwise up in the peak of the roof.

Additionally, the box has a slide-out tray that I have lined with sand...I would clean the poop out every week. Now, since they aren't staying in there, it stays clean..which means all that poop is landing in the main run. (Which has pretty deep pine shavings.)

What I'm wondering is: should I remove the high roost bar to encourage them back in the box at night?

Pros and Cons of letting them stay out: Pros - less to clean, and they seem to like it. Cons - maybe less safe/warm? Maybe less sanitary?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[PirateGirl]

What is the length x width of just the coop/box part, not the fenced area and not the nest boxes?

How long is the highest roost inside the coop?

How old are your chickens?

What are your nighttime temps?

 

[PinkMinnow]

The roost box is about 3' x 5', with the roost poles running the 5' length. They are about 11 months old.

Our nighttime temps have been in the teens (F).

 

[PirateGirl]

Personally I prefer when my chickens sleep locked in the coop and not just in the run. It is warmer in winter (less drafty, more protected from weather/snow). Even if the run is secure, the coop is usually more secure, and less tempting for predators. Think store items in a display window are more tempting than the things you can't see behind a brick wall, the chickens are easier to see and smell out in the open. That being said, there are many people who have birds that sleep outside or just under some sort of awning or lean to.

I suspect, perhaps, that your flock is outgrowing the coop if they are not bantams. 2.5 square feet in the coop/box per bird is pretty tight quarters for 6 standard size chickens, but 5 ft. of roost is pretty good. I'd try taking the roost away from the outer portion of the run and see what happens, or place it down lower so they still have a roost, but maybe only a foot or two above the ground (so they can walk under it too). This roost may be less appealing than the inside of the coop if it's lower, also then it will be more exposed to the elements so if the birds want to get out of the weather for the night their best option will be to go inside.

Also your coop would be pretty easy to expand if you are somewhat handy (or can lure a handy friend to help you with the promise of fresh eggs). It has enough nest box space, windows, a pop door, all the tricky parts are built already, you could just use plywood to box in the section to the right (in your photo) just out to the next upright support pole, and either cut a big hole through the existing wall to connect the two halves or move the wall itself out to the right. It wouldn't take up any more space in your yard and would give the chickens more inside space.

 

[squadleader]

It's interesting, chickens are just like people, they vote with their feet, what they do is way more revealing than what they say.

Like Dr Woods says in his book, left to their own devices, these birds, just like all wild birds, would simply roost in a tree, with whatever natural shelter they could find, like roosting close to a tree trunk, on the lee side of a cold wind.

Small coops really only exist for us, not them. We've taken away their natural choices, so we put them in coops at night to protect them from predators because our run isn't predator proof, and the coop offers a shelter from precipitation, and a cold wind, in the wild, they'd naturally look for some form of natural shelter.

If your run is predator proof, free of precipitation, and offers a block to cold wind, you don't actually need a coop at all.

My tractor doesn't even have a coop, but it is predator proof, it's covered, and in the winter the wind is blocked in all directions, except the south side which is always open, with just open half inch hardware wire, to allow good ventilation and warm sunshine.

The south side, it's always open, even if minus 5 degrees, yes that happened last month, no problem at all for the chickens.

The north side, the open wire door, and the open wire on the east and west sides, is only covered in winter, with clear plastic roofing panels.

Interior shot, looking south to the open wire end. There's no coop at all in this tractor, the nesting box, is wall mounted to the right out of the photo. Because three of the sides are closed, the air is very still, while the open wire south end provides great ventilation.

If you're covered, predator proof, and can close up all sides except south (it must be open wire), you won't need a coop in your run either.

By the way, Dr Woods book, it's only 90 pages, can be read at this link, for free.

https://books.google.com/books?id=o...X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=onepage&q&f=true

Tremendous information, unfortunately, he perfected small poultry houses in 1912, at the very moment of the birth of the factory farm, and his work was largely forgotten because we all moved to buying grocery store eggs. It wasn't until recently his work was resurrected due to the boom in back yard chickens, and the pleasure they provide us, along with the higher quality of their eggs.

There's really only two reasons small coops exist, first because we don't realize how easy it is to create something just a little bigger, a Woods House, or something that accomplishes his goals, like my tractor.

The only advantage of hoop construction is it's easier and less expensive. For instance, my hoop tractor could also be a stationary chicken colony house, and be even less expensive to build than mine, because it wouldn't have to be built as strong as mine, because you wouldn't be pulling it every week like I do.

It's incredibly simple, accomplishes all his goals, and removes all the mystery of ventilation and poop management. It's a more robust system that isn't as fragile as small coop systems, that if the owner doesn't stay right on top of poop management and ventilation, is deadly to chickens.

The second reason small coops exist is because it's less expensive to have a small tight coop, with a run with less than perfect predator protection and shelter, than a bigger building or tractor, that performs those functions well, and with much less work for the owner. There's also less risk to the birds due to a human error in small coop management.

It's so strong, he's actually balancing the entire weight of the tractor on a single point.

Strong enough to pull every week, although it's not far, you only have to pull eight feet, to have completely fresh grass in it every week.

 

[PinkMinnow]

So, if I'm reading this right, because I have zero problem with predators, and they HAVE the option, but choose not to, they're probably just fine where they are.

But what about the fact that all their manure is then basically staying in the run. I mean, it's deep litter directly on soil (dug down), so I know it will break down. I just didn't know if it would cause any sanitation issues for them.

 

[PirateGirl]

So, if I'm reading this right, because I have zero problem with predators, and they HAVE the option, but choose not to, they're probably just fine where they are.

But what about the fact that all their manure is then basically staying in the run. I mean, it's deep litter directly on soil (dug down), so I know it will break down. I just didn't know if it would cause any sanitation issues for them.

How much manure breaks down how quickly depends a lot on your local weather. Generally speaking, if it doesn't stink, you don't have a problem. Chickens scratch and turn it regularly and it composts. You could use a small rake or something in your run, or a scoop or shovel and clean it out from time to time. You could modify the outside part and install a dropping board or tarp under the outside roost if you wanted too. Just brainstorming. If you search old threads you will find lots of info. on maintaining sanitation in the run, from deep litter (leaving everything in the run to compost), to sand bedding where people do the extreme opposite and scoop each poop several times a day with a kitty litter scoop. Most people are somewhere in the middle. Let your nose guide you.

 

[squadleader]

I understand your concern, that's why I chose a tractor, I have zero poop management, I leave it behind every week as fertilizer.

It's a simple fact, that if you don't have a tractor, you must understand and have a poop management system.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about it, it's not an issue with my system.

However, there are great people on here who know a ton about poop management. I see the deep litter system mentioned a lot, which I'm sure can handle it, I just don't know it well enough to tell you what you should do specifically with the roosting poop in your run.

 

[jthornton]

Chickens will roost in the highest thing they can find, up to you to decide what you provide.

You should put your location in your profile so you can get better answers. The answer for someone living in Florida would be different than someone living in Alaska.

JT

 

[nminusyplusm]

I understand your concern, that's why I chose a tractor, I have zero poop management, I leave it behind every week as fertilizer.

It's a simple fact, that if you don't have a tractor, you must understand and have a poop management system.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about it, it's not an issue with my system.

However, there are great people on here who know a ton about poop management. I see the deep litter system mentioned a lot, which I'm sure can handle it, I just don't know it well enough to tell you what you should do specifically with the roosting poop in your run.

With DL in both my coop and run I have zero poop management too, unless you count giving it some water every other day because I live in the desert.