Fox got the chickens again. What kind of dog will protect them?

[pdsavage]

http://www.lgd.org/
clic on the pics in the link...Its all about Livestock Guardian Dogs

 

[BirdBrained]

I have 2 small dogs and a medium size dog and they do a great job of keeping other animals away from my flock,altho they think my flock is their food instead so i do have to keep a close eye on them and make sure my pens/runs are secure.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
Holy cow....I'm sorry, but this is just plain ol' bad advice.

To be fair, I've seen the "get a border collie" type advice perpetuated a few times here, and it always disturbs me..

<rant>

You could most certainly go wrong with an Aussie, GSD, or any kind of Collie.. In fact, my personal experience tells me you'd be more likely to go wrong than right with any of the three breeds above.. "Sheepdogs" could mean one of several types of dogs -- some herd, some guard -- so, even getting "a sheepdog" wouldn't ensure success.

Let's get something perfectly straight -- herding dogs are herding dogs, not guarding dogs. Likewise, guarding dogs are guarding dogs, not herding dogs. In terms of behavior and mindset, guard dogs and herding dogs really could not possibly be any more different from one another!

First of all, herding dogs are simply TOO SMALL to be effective guardians against any serious threat.. Shepherding dogs also have what's called a 'modified prey drive,' which means their instinct is to chase and corner prey, and to 'nip' (or GRIP!) when the prey isn't doing what the dog wants it to do.. They're reknown for herding and nipping/biting kids and smaller animals, and it's not all that uncommon for the smaller animal to be killed accidentally. Chickens are prime candidates!

As the owner of two border collies, a GSD, and a true LGD, and as someone who knows -- FIRST HAND -- their tendencies, I would never ever ever ever buy a herding dog with the intent of having it 'guard' small animals. Unless you get a really crappy herding dog with no natural instincts, or you're the dog wisperer and can train them against what centuries of selective breeding has told them to do, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

I also would never pit any herding dog against a big coyote, because they would lose. The coyotes we have around here are as big as GSDs, but they're far meaner and far more adapted to fighting for a living -- and they work in groups, if need be. An Aussie or Border collie -- forget it -- dead meat. No contest.

What you want is a big, heavy dog with big strong bones and muscles and big long teeth, but ZERO prey drive. You want a dog that looks at you with utter confusion when you throw a ball or a stick and try to play catch. That's how true LGD's act -- they don't understand the concept of chasing, cornering, or gripping the ball, because the movement of the ball doesn't generate any excitement whatsoever. They just watch it go by and look back at you, totally nonplussed, like "Why'd you do that?"

A good LGD will have the same non-reaction over the movements of chickens.. Or a day old lamb, kicking up its heels in the pasture... Or a kid goat, running around like crazy.. They don't care...it doesn't excite them at all...they have no desire to chase, corner, or bite small animals, because they have absolutely no prey drive whatsoever..

Bottom line, if you're looking to get a dog to guard your livestock, do yourself a favor and get a real, honest to goodness LIVESTOCK GUARDIAN DOG. That's what they're bred for.

</rant>

 

[McGoo]

So sorry. I can totally sympathize... I just lost my flock to a fox.

I do think that any guardian/smart type dog will do the trick, but not unless old enough and well trained, though some have amazing instinct.

I have a 4 mo old shepherd/lab mix who is still more interested in chasing, than in protecting the chickens. Not sure how old a dog needs to be to protect, but I'm sure it's close to a year old before you can expect them to understand.

As for fencing - maybe you could set up one of those temporary electric poultry mesh fences... and move it about every week. IT would be a way to get them out there 'free ranging', but would definitely keep most land predators away.

Since my loss, I'm planning to set up an electric mesh poultry fence on about 1/2 acre, some open/some woods. I'm told that if the charge is strong the predators get zapped once - they'll never come back.

And remember, even if you trap/kill one fox, you've most likely got there offspring in the fall, etc.

All the best.

 

[promiselandfarm5]

Thanks so much for everyone taking the time to post on the topic, I know anyone with chickens are busy people.

We have tried electric fence in the past and had a mother raccoon tunnel under it and pop up in the middle of the chicken pen. She also brought her babies for training. We lost 26 chickens and had about 3-4 left.

I know we want a dog and after all the great points everyone has made I think we are going for a bigger guard dog.

cmjust0: Do you think a large guard dog will wonder away without a fence? That is just what we have heard. We have a Great Pyrenese, but she is in a fence with our goats.

Thanks to all you great BYCers

 

[Trenary Duck Farm]

Here is a good article on Livestock Guardian Dogs.

 

[KnitswithChickens]

We have two aussies who want nothing more than to eat the chickies! We had to move our invisible fence to keep them away from the coop and run.

 

[SC_Hugh]

My long coat Chihuahua (Cesar) is our chicken alarm. Cesar keeps our other two dogs and Maine Coon cat in line around the chicken run. They all love to watch the chickens, but I wouldn't trust any of them without a fence between them.

My advice is to build a Fort Knox chicken run and coop and then not worry about it.

Pic of Cesar

 

[~*Sweet Cheeks*~]

Oh my!!! I'd hate to come home to dead or missing chicks and for that reason, I only let my chicks out of their run when I'm sitting there to watch them.

I have red tail hawk and three bald eagles that circle around over head scouting out the covered chicken run.

I also have three herding dogs. My 4 yr old ACD Marli I got to be my trail dog and had to teach to run ahead instead of bring up the rear which came instinctual. My 3 yr old aussie Missy loves to chase anything that runs. Got her for playmate to Marli.

I would NEVER EVER leave them alone with the chickens if I wanted my chickens to remain alive.

My four month old red heeler/shihtzu mix Roofus was 6 wks old when I got the ten chicks and would visit when I went to the brooder. He learned not to chase or lunge towards the chicks but to be slow. He loved to lick their toes when they flew up to perch on the edge of the brooder. The chicks liked pecking his nose.

I could see potential in raising Roofus to help with the chicks but choose to keep my birds in one fenced area and the dogs in their own. To safely range the chicks so they can get fresh grass and bugs, I'm planning on building a 5' x 12' cattle panel tractor that I'm buying the supplies for when funds allow.

I think you need to keep your birds in a preditor proof area unless you're out there to keep an eye on them if you want to keep them alive because it will be some time before you can get a puppy, dog trained, trustworthy, and predictable. Good luck to you.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
Some would, some wouldn't.. I know some folks who leave their Anatolians out to roam, but they stick close with the goats and chickens.. Then again, I've also heard of LGDs claiming everything between the nearest fences as their own territory, which could include the road, the neighbor's house (if it's not fenced, either), etc..

Put it this way...if a big LGD did decide to wander away, I'd really hate to think of what the dog could do to someone (or someone's kid) whom the dog decided was a threat. I wouldn't chance it.

Since you've already got your Pyr, would it be possible to work the fence (or move the chickens) such that dog and goats and chickens can all mingle?

That's what I'd be doing, personally..

Actually...that's what I did.