From scratch

[AndrewH]

We had chickens when I was growing up on our little 25 acre farm, but "managing the flock" was my grandpa's job. I just fed and watered them and gathered eggs, which we all know is the fun part anyway.

Now that I'm older and wanting to start "getting back to my roots" (left the big city for the simple country livin' again), I found myself asking questions that my grandfather seamed to just know.

See my grandfather used to have a chicken farm back in SoCal in the late 70's (5,000 laying hens), but since his death I lost my "go to guy" for animal answers. Hopefully some of you nice folks will be able to steer me in the right direction(s).

We have about 3 acres which we plan to keep a large garden, greenhouse, steer, pigs, chickens, etc., but I need a little help on the latter.

We were talking last night (after I told my gf about this site) about how many eggs we would need each week. 2/day = 14/wk should be plenty for our personal needs, but we also want to eat the birds, too. So we estimated 1 bird a week (50-52 birds per year).

So that leads me to my first inquiry:
1a. Since I want eggs and chicken to eat, how old should you harvest the meat? Do you typically wait til the hen stops laying? Do you keep the eaten chickens and the laying chickens apart? Do you only eat the fryers?

Seems it would be easier to butcher 3-5 birds at a time, then freeze the leftovers. Then, a month or so later (once that stock pile runs low), do it again.
1b. Using this pattern, how many birds total would I need to keep on hand at any given time? I'd like to make the initial investment in some pullets or laying hens, then be off and running without having to buy "starters" again if possible.

My understanding/experience (been 10+ years since I kept chickens last) it takes about 5-6 months for the pullets to start laying.
2. How long will they lay (1 year, 2 years, etc.)?

There aren't any barns or shelters on the property now, other than our house, so I get to design and build everything myself (avatar pic

), so that takes me to the 3rd question.
3. How big do I need to make the coop? How big do I need to make the 'run'?

I do plan to raise the broods, so I'm sure that's a factor in my coop design. Do I need to have a separate section within the coop for incubation or brooding mothers? Currently I have 3 areas: roosting, laying/nesting, and storage. Do I need to add a brooding area?

I personally prefer free range eggs, and plan to build a LARGE run for the birds, so they have plenty of buffet without having to worry about the stray dogs and coyotes, etc. I would also like to raise a couple turkey each year for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Possible some ducks and geese, too.
4. Can the other fowl be housed with the chickens? Should I keep them all separate?

Any additional advise would also be helpful (I'm sure I'm forgetting to ask something

).

TYIA for any help. It is much appreciated!

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
There are lots of different ways to do it. Older hens who are laying less will "only" be good for stewing (pressure-cooker or long slow simmering for chicken and dumplings); if you want more tender chicken, you either need to raise meat chickens from the feedstore (CornishX, colored broilers, freedom rangers, whatever) or hatch some of your own chicks and eat them around 14-18 wks of age.

Seems it would be easier to butcher 3-5 birds at a time, then freeze the leftovers. Then, a month or so later (once that stock pile runs low), do it again.

As long as this works out ok in terms of the ages (tenderness) of the birds you're wanting to eat, it is certainly one way to do it. But if you want a bunch of non-stewing chicken, you will probably want to raise a good sized batch and put it in the freezer all at once or over just a few weeks.

1b. Using this pattern, how many birds total would I need to keep on hand at any given time? I'd like to make the initial investment in some pullets or laying hens, then be off and running without having to buy "starters" again if possible.

If you're going to keep a roo or two, and hatch your own (I would suggest an incubator if you are on a "schedule", as broodiness is not reliable in most breeds and some breeds don't go broody at all) then you can certainly do this; do the math yourself depending how many old hens you want to eat. If you want meat chickens specifically, though (the kind of plump meaty lots-of-white-meat carcass you get in a supermarket) then you will pretty much need to buy those chicks from a feedstore or by mail.

My understanding/experience (been 10+ years since I kept chickens last) it takes about 5-6 months for the pullets to start laying.
2. How long will they lay (1 year, 2 years, etc.)?

The first year of laying (until their first adult molt) is the most productive. Some breeds/lines continue laying decently after that, esp. if you provide additional light in wintertime; others not so much. Depends what chickens you want to get. Few will lay much beyond 4 yrs or so (they will lay a few eggs but not many, usually, if at all)

There aren't any barns or shelters on the property now, other than our house, so I get to design and build everything myself (avatar pic

), so that takes me to the 3rd question.
3. How big do I need to make the coop? How big do I need to make the 'run'?

As big as you possibly can, is the simplest and smartest thing to do. Figure AT LEAST 4 sq ft per chicken indoors and 10 sq ft per chicken outdoors, but more (potentially LOTS more) is definitely better and makes life easier, also leaves room for expansion.

I do plan to raise the broods, so I'm sure that's a factor in my coop design. Do I need to have a separate section within the coop for incubation or brooding mothers? Currently I have 3 areas: roosting, laying/nesting, and storage. Do I need to add a brooding area?

Somewhere, yes. Also for growing out young chickens til they are old enough to introduce safely to the flock (so you will need room to grow them up basically to full body size, see space allowances cited above)

Good luck, have fun, welcome to BYC,

Pat​

 

[AndrewH]

Quote:
Ah, gottcha. The older hens are more though and the younger or more tender... duh, that makes sense since everything else is like that... (palms forehead).

14-18 wks is the best for everyday eatin', check.

As long as this works out ok in terms of the ages (tenderness) of the birds you're wanting to eat, it is certainly one way to do it. But if you want a bunch of non-stewing chicken, you will probably want to raise a good sized batch and put it in the freezer all at once or over just a few weeks.

check, goes along with 1a.

If you're going to keep a roo or two, and hatch your own (I would suggest an incubator if you are on a "schedule", as broodiness is not reliable in most breeds and some breeds don't go broody at all) then you can certainly do this; do the math yourself depending how many old hens you want to eat. If you want meat chickens specifically, though (the kind of plump meaty lots-of-white-meat carcass you get in a supermarket) then you will pretty much need to buy those chicks from a feedstore or by mail.

Kinna goes with 1a & 1b...

Guess it prompts for my math skills. I'll over estimate at 20 wks.
20wks = 20 birds, so I need to have a continual supply of 20 babies every 20 days to sustain the food stock.

5. What is the incubation period for chickens (general, not breed specific, yet)? If memory serves me correctly, it's 21-28 days, right?

The first year of laying (until their first adult molt) is the most productive. Some breeds/lines continue laying decently after that, esp. if you provide additional light in wintertime; others not so much. Depends what chickens you want to get. Few will lay much beyond 4 yrs or so (they will lay a few eggs but not many, usually, if at all)

I was thinking it was somewhere in the 2-3 yr range (vague memories of the past). That info definitely helps with the math

.

As big as you possibly can, is the simplest and smartest thing to do. Figure AT LEAST 4 sq ft per chicken indoors and 10 sq ft per chicken outdoors, but more (potentially LOTS more) is definitely better and makes life easier, also leaves room for expansion.

Ah, 4sqft/bird... indoors. Guess I need to finish my math above (project it out for 1-2 yrs to see the cycle and plan accordingly

).

I think the outdoor area will be limited by my fence budget, but should be well beyond 10sqft per bird (have a nice spot already picked if the better half gives the approval).

Somewhere, yes. Also for growing out young chickens til they are old enough to introduce safely to the flock (so you will need room to grow them up basically to full body size, see space allowances cited above)

Ah, gotcha... need "grow-out" areas too. Makes sense especially for someone wanting feed stock and eggs from the same coop. Guess I've got to put my design skills to the test.

Good luck, have fun, welcome to BYC,

Pat

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions. This will definitely help me move to the next step... coop design.​

 

[Pampered Hen]

Chicken eggs incubate for 21 days.

The great thing about chickens is there are so many breeds to choose from. If you want to raise your own meat birds from the eggs of your layers, you probably want to stick with "dual purpose" breeds - birds that lay well and also grow to a decent weight. Delawares, Orpingtons, Wyandottes, Rocks and others come to mind.
For 14 eggs per week, you should be fine with just a handfull of hens. Depending on the season you might have a whole lot more than you need, or not enough. Hens slow down during their fall molt and generally lay less in the winter season. Spring and summer is their laying peak season. If you can stagger the ages in your flock and you will have young pullets starting to lay when the older hens slow down for the molt.

If I were you, I would start my layer flock this spring and buy meat birds for the first year. Once your flock is established and starts laying eggs, you can switch over to producing your very own birds.
I would suggest to start out with 20 or 30% more birds than you will need to cover mortality down the road. And if you plan on breeding your own, make sure you start out with good breeder stock.

Best of luck!

 

[AndrewH]

Quote:
LOL, that was one of my next questions... which is the best duel purpose bird?

I think once this monster gets up and running, my original plans will most likely change (as in ending up with more chickens than my original estimates, which is fine).

My current plan is to get 4 laying birds and a good roo, and go from there. Once the hens have laid the first 24 eggs, I'll start incubating them for pullet/fryer food stock. Which will occur every 24 weeks there after (2 times a year). The babies I hatch will begin my food stock and the remaining hens (in this case the 4 original I started with) will remain my egg layers until 4 from the first batch take their place where the others from that batch will be for food.

This cycle seems to work out math wise; 4 to start, about 24 eggs a week later, then 24 babies by the end of the month, then save 4 of the babies for egg layers and the rest become food. The second cycle will all be food (or I'll mix and match egg layers from each batch - 2 from this batch, 2 from that batch, etc.).

We definitely have tons of family that'll use any extra eggs or chicken we have left over. It's a simple adjustment if I need more or less eggs/meat.

Thank you, for the help and encouragement!!!





Coop design = https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=3683206#p3683206

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

Your 24 eggs for hatching will need to be collected over 7 -20 days, best not over 7 days for good fertility. Plus your 14 weekly eggs, so 38 eggs over 7 days at an average of 5 eggs per week shows a need for 7- 8 hens. Hens really should not be bred until they are yearlings or close to 1 year old for healthy large chicks, so I have read.

I did the same thing. I do not have the option of eating store bought chickens (allergys), so had to play it safe. I started with 24 hens, should have gone straight run. Kept the best layers and culled the others for food. I hatch 3-4 times a year. I do not enjoy culling in the winter. So this year I will not Hatch past September. I raise Sicilian Buttercups and Cull at any age for tender meat, but they are small. I have my Turkens for larger fare and Cull at 12-16 weeks. I add to my hens twice a year so my hens are approximately 6 months apart in age, up to age 2 years. At that time they are Culled, ( Mom never kept Hens past 2 Years and they are canned). I have a small hen house, a Brooder house that can double as a grow out and a grow out house that has been taken over as a Duck House. I also have others that have come about from other hatching eggs, due to a lack of a rooster that first year. Between the 3 different breeds, I have not been without eggs since starting up with chickens again. They molt at different times so the eggs may slow down but don't stop. Also, young pullets once started will keep laying most of their first year. That's why I start Pullets twice a year.

I also have Muscovies in the Duck House. The Drake and none broody Duck(s) will spend a few weeks in the hen house when the Ducklings are hatching. Then back they go. I have heard that Ducks will try to mate Hens and when doing so kill them. Mr Drake enjoys his time in the Hen house away from the frennzy of the Hatchlings and his moody Duck Mother. A Duck or two with him will keep him happy for a few weeks. By the time the Hens are getting on his nerves, the Hatchlings are old enough to move out of his way if necessary. My Chickens and Ducks have their own Runs, but daily roam the back together for a few hours, so everyone is used to each other. I notice the Ducks like to follow the chickens for whatever they have scratched up and left behind.

In the Heat of the Summer, once the heat hits 85 I let them roam the back to find their own cool spots. Summers have long roaming days. Also, my nesting boxes are on the outside of the hen house. They each have 2 doors outside. The top where I collect eggs and the back which I can drop in hot weather, Hardware cloth covers that opening to keep criters out and let air in. I have not lost any to heat exhaustion. So, plan for Heat as well as Freezing temps there by Fort Worth.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[tammyd57]

Something to keep in mind, that is hard to figure into the math equation. You can set 24 eggs in the incubator and not all will hatch. Of all that DO hatch, not all will live long enough to lay or make a good size fryer. Even a hen can't always hatch every egg she sits on.
You might want to consider doing the math for how many eggs/fryers you want each season and then add 10-20% to that as a cushion for losses.
And this doesn't even take into account predators/accidents or other losses.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Realize that "dual purpose" breeds are not going to give you anything that looks like the chcikens you get in the grocery store. They look more like the old Groucho Marx style rubber chickens. Decent dark meat but very underendowed in the white meat department; also less meat overall, per weight of carcass, than supermarket chickens.

Your best bet if you care about eggs and economical meat production (insofar as dual-purpose chickens *can* produce meat 'economically' -- meat chicks from the feedstore will give you a much better return of lbs of meat per cost of feed, but you can't breed them yourself) would probably be a good-laying line of Barred Rocks. Or something similar (fairly fast to reach a good body size, and good layers). Getting a GOOD LAYING line is important if you care about the economics, so ask around.

My current plan is to get 4 laying birds and a good roo, and go from there. Once the hens have laid the first 24 eggs, I'll start incubating them for pullet/fryer food stock. Which will occur every 24 weeks there after (2 times a year). The babies I hatch will begin my food stock and the remaining hens (in this case the 4 original I started with) will remain my egg layers until 4 from the first batch take their place where the others from that batch will be for food.

You may want to think about modifying some of the details here...

FIrst, I would strongly suggest starting with a *bunch* of chickens, not just 5. You can keep the best roo (or two, if you have room - that way you have a backup in case of something bad happening) and the best 5-6 hens, and eat the rest at 16-18 weeks.

You will probably not have good luck hatching those first pullet eggs. First, if the rooster is that young they are unlikely to be fertile (certianly not *all* be fertile, and quite possibly not any) and secondly they are less likely to develop into good chicks. People usually wait til pullets have been laying for at least several months, if not longer, before even TRYING to set eggs, and best results are usually from year-old hens.

Also, as someone has pointed out, setting 24 eggs will seldom give you 24 chicks; indeed sometimes it may give you *no* chicks; I think the best you can realistically hope for as a running average is maybe 80% hatch rate once you are experienced and that is IF every single egg is fertile.

If you want to have 24 chicks "on the ground" each batch, it would be wise to set at least 30 eggs. To do this from just 4 hens would require them to each lay an egg *every single day* for 7 1/2 consecutive days. This is not realistically going to happen from any breed you are going to own (sexlinks and leghorns would come pretty close, but sexlinks don't breed true and aren't great for meat, and leghorns are *nothing* for meat). So you would want to be keeping more than that number of hens, I think. (Or get some fertile eggs from someone else to hatch, I suppose). And for sure keep them for longer than just 6 months, which means that at some point you will have to refrain from eating some of your young chickens so they can become replacement layers.

You might also want to try a batch of feedstore broilers (or mailorder some colored broilers if you don't like the CornishX) and/or perhaps some turkeys, if you are interested in meat production, see how you like them. They would need to be kept separate from your layers, but your growing-out young chickens would need to be kept separate *anyhow* so not really any difference there.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat​

 

[AndrewH]

Quote:
Ah, good point. Didn't think of the "shelf life". With 4 hens I'll have ~28 eggs per 7 dys. So after the first wk I'll be incubating 28 eggs, then the following 21 wks (21 wks x 28 eggs = 588 eggs) I'll steal Blue Bell Ice Cream's slogan: "Eat all I can and sell the rest." Or probably give them away in my case

.

If I start with 7-8 laying hens I'll run outta refrigerator room really quick

Heck the first wk I'll have to find room for 56 (4 and 2/3 dozen) and by the end of the second week everyone I know would already have PLENTY of eggs, so I'd just have to toss them out

. I know our dogs and cats would LOVE for us to have 7-8, but I don't think I can justify it, yet.

Turns out, pending some other advise I haven't had the chance to read all the way through just yet, I might end up going more with a "meat" bird than a duel purpose bird for the hatch-out cycle (the laying hens would simply be for breakfast food and I wouldn't incubate the eggs).

But it sounds like the one year breeding standard might put my meat birds off a bit (meaning I'll still be having to buy chicken in the store for the first year until I get the breeding cycle established).

Good thing I didn't run out and purchase the first chickens I found without putting some thought into it. Thank you for your help.

Quote:
Buttercups, those are nice looking birds (still learning the different breeds). Up til now they've all just been 'chickens'.

Sounds like you're doing the same type schedule I am planning. Might have to hit you up for some tips soon

.

Quote:
What are the ducks for? Pets or food?

I was thinking of getting some ducks later on, but wasn't exactly sure what I'd do with 'em. I don't eat duck that often (don't guess I've found anyone that knows how to cook it

), but my daughters think the ducklings are sooooooooo cute. I'm sure I'll be talked into it soon enough.

Quote:
Yeah, heat is always top on the list in Texas. And this winter, cool and snow as well. I currently plan to have the coop designed with some good breeze flow for summer (spot I have for the coop sits between two live oak trees, so gooooood shade). Also planning some propane heat for them on the coldest of nights.

Thank you very much!

 

[AndrewH]

Quote:
Yeah, I had thought of that too. Meaning just because I have 4 hens doesn't mean I'll get 4 eggs per day, nor does having 20 eggs in the incubator mean I'll have 20 chicks at the end of the month.

I guess I look at it this way; even if I only get a few chicks the first few times, it'll be that much less I have to buy at the grocery store the next trip. And if I stay at it long enough, I'll be able to raise chickens with my eyes closed and will have a good system in place. I don't think I'll hit the sweet spot first time up to bat, but I bet with ya'lls help I have a working system in 6 months from the first egg

These outlines, plans, and ideas are just a starting point

. I think once I have a few hatches and rotisserie & bbq chickens under my belt, I'll have a better idea of my true egg and chicken needs. So far my needs are based on estimations.

Very good points, thank you for the help!