Gambel's Quail Lockdown - bigger air cell? + candling pics

[Quispherer]

Its time for Gambel's Quail Eggs 2: Electric Boogaloo. My first set all stopped developing within a few days, I'm pretty sure it was entirely because I was still figuring out my incubators, but I got the temp stabilized in time for this set to develop nearly perfectly

6 eggs shipped in the dead middle of summer from Florida to Arizona and all 6 of them have made it all the way through to lockdown!

We can't literally "dry hatch" out here in the desert where I am, you have to add water to get an incubator above 17%, but I did 35% - 40%, trying to lean more towards replicating incubating conditions the local quail have outdoors than typical recommendations for New World Quail.

These amazing little eggs have given me the coolest views of developing embryos in ways I couldn't see with the coturnix eggs. Not the greatest pics haha but I know for the future that candling these around day 13-14 is craazzyyyy to look at.

They've just gone into the hatcher yesterday on Day 19. Did a last candling and they all look amazing but I think these air cells might be a little big for lockdown?

Air cell being too big means up the humidity a little more than usual right? I got curled toes on my Coturnix that hatched at 65% so I was going to stick to 60% but because of the air cells I'm second guessing myself. For now I've put a small sponge on the side of the incubator with the 2 larger air sac eggs.

I do worry they might not have enough room to position themselves properly, or might not have had enough space to grow fully, but this is only my second hatch that might actually produce chicks so I know my judgement leans towards cautious lol. Anxious even I was advised by a Gambel's breeder that they are more likely to be malpositioned or pip on the wrong side which is of course making me more conscious of it. Curious if anyone else has heard this about Gambels or other western new world quail?

I assisted one chick in my coturnix hatch a few days ago and while that went swimmingly, baby is healthy as could be (so far), it also made me so nervous to be doing such delicate work meant for tiny bird beaks. I would rather intervene than let them die, but I would rather they hatch on their own than intervene, if that makes sense. I know a lot of people don't believe in helping eggs at all and I appreciate all perspectives esp as a newbie.

On closer inspection is that an internal pip? Or is he just pushing on the membrane? It looks like he's past the edge of the air sac? You can faintly see the line of where the edge is/was, and then some shadows at the bottom.

Maybe I'm crazy haha, feel free to be honest if you don't see it or if I'm totally misinterpreting it.

If nothing else this will be a little hatch diary just to add to the small well of information that's out there about these babies. Would love comments from anyone who also hatches Gambel's, I plan to hatch more in the spring when they start laying again, or Valley which I have going into Lockdown on Saturday.

 

[Quispherer]

I'm devastated in 24 hours I lost 3.

I gave a safety hole to the early pip and did a quick candle of everyone else. The egg I had expected to pip first (veins had become less visible) wasn't moving under the candler light. When I checked it, it appeared to have a tiny hole in the inner membrane over the wing, a few cm from its beak. It almost looks like it pipped the inner membrane then moved and blocked the hole. I had just seen it moving not long before but by the time I opened it to check its heart had stopped

I upped humidity and gave everyone a teeny tiny safety hole with a hand drill in case idk maybe either of those could have helped the first chick? It seemed to be malpositioned. So I checked the first pip, which was open enough so I could see the beak, and had been absorbing yolk and making tiny peeps just fine... it also looked positioned wrong. He also passed while I was trying to figure out if I should do something. I didnt want to touch it in case I was wrong and his position was actually normal. He was fine and then he wasn't, he pipped so he had air, his membrane never dried out, theres no obvious reason for why he would have died.

And then a third one stopped moving. And his feet were so pressed into the top of his head it looked like he was squished... his safety hole had been big enough that he made eye contact with me like 15 minutes before that I saw his feet up and was wondering if I should do something but he hadn't internally pipped on his own yet so I felt I couldn't actually do anything... and I couldn't save him either but idk if he even developed properly and would have survived. His yolk looked huge and not very absorbed? He never even internally pipped...

I was told Gambels ended up poorly positioned more often than coturnix but?? Surely I've done something wrong? Should I have stopped turning them early? Was the 65% humidity too low? Would any of that have made a difference?

The last 3 babies are resting with 75-80% humidity, all pipped through the internal membrane. One baby had its beak completely under its wing and I had to let the wing free so he could breathe but is otherwise normal. They don't have far to go with absorbing the blood and everything, the 2 normal size ones look so healthy and so close to hatching... so just keeping my eye on them.

And I've just accepted its still very possible I'll lose all of them. One of the remaining is the smallest egg, the chances of that one making it were already so slim - even before I realized something seemed really wrong.

I really don't know, every chick that died seemed fully stuck because of their feet.. the first pip chick was so close to just popping out of the egg, everything seemed fine. I assisted 1 out of 3 of my coturnix hatch by doing the exact same thing, a partial zip so the baby could breathe and when it was ready it pushed out on its own just fine, so I expected this one would do the same, since I did it literally exactly the same. The other two had much smaller holes.

Im just looking forward to my bobwhite hatch which I've already decided is pretty much set-and-forget. I'm only a few days in but I don't even want to candle, I just want to touch nothing and not feel like its my fault when stuff goes wrong ugghh. Early quitters don't bother me like this does.

Wish me luck for at least one of these poor little angels making it