Geese training?

[Miss Lydia]

I tried to google the air sac thing but everything i pull up has to do with brooding eggs. do you remember where you read that. i trained one of my ducks to lay on her back when i am holding her... maybe i shouldnt have

It was something RURU said so maybe we should PM her for details.

 

[RURU]

If you ladies are talking about geese or ducks on their backs, it is like with horses if they are on their backs too long it can suffocate them and kill them!
Now I am not sure if this is what happened to my buff gosling or not. But I was at dialysis and when I came home I found my buff gosling on it's back dead in the container with the other goslings. It was as if it tried to jump out and fell back on it's back and could not turn back over while I was gone and died. So DO NOT try to train your geese or ducks to stay on their backs. It can and will kill them. Just like with horses can not lay on their sides to long because their insides with cause them to suffocate and die!
I hope this is what you ladies were talking about....

 

[Chaneys Ranch]

If you ladies are talking about geese or ducks on their backs, it is like with horses if they are on their backs too long it can suffocate them and kill them!
Now I am not sure if this is what happened to my buff gosling or not. But I was at dialysis and when I came home I found my buff gosling on it's back dead in the container with the other goslings. It was as if it tried to jump out and fell back on it's back and could not turn back over while I was gone and died. So DO NOT try to train your geese or ducks to stay on their backs. It can and will kill them. Just like with horses can not lay on their sides to long because their insides with cause them to suffocate and die!
I hope this is what you ladies were talking about....

Glad you chimed in! Its very cute to see them learn it, but I have seen this in both geese and ducks, a "flip" effect, like if they can't regain their footing and turn over. I keep my pens dry, and they are able to free range. I have lost 1 gosling and 2 ducks to this over the last 2 years. I have to agree, as I have found the same thing in my grow out pens. I do want to learn more about it. Its very common in meat bird breeds, but feel its different in the heritage waterfowl. My oldest DD loves to hold them like a baby, on their backs. It gives me a panic don't do it feeling! Some of my geese seem to like it but i think its not a good thing for them until we know differently. Not a natural position for sure. Just want to be sure my birds are safe.

 

[Miss Lydia]

If you ladies are talking about geese or ducks on their backs, it is like with horses if they are on their backs too long it can suffocate them and kill them!
Now I am not sure if this is what happened to my buff gosling or not. But I was at dialysis and when I came home I found my buff gosling on it's back dead in the container with the other goslings. It was as if it tried to jump out and fell back on it's back and could not turn back over while I was gone and died. So DO NOT try to train your geese or ducks to stay on their backs. It can and will kill them. Just like with horses can not lay on their sides to long because their insides with cause them to suffocate and die!
I hope this is what you ladies were talking about....

Thanks RURU it was.

 

[andreacroyle]

If you ladies are talking about geese or ducks on their backs, it is like with horses if they are on their backs too long it can suffocate them and kill them!
Now I am not sure if this is what happened to my buff gosling or not. But I was at dialysis and when I came home I found my buff gosling on it's back dead in the container with the other goslings. It was as if it tried to jump out and fell back on it's back and could not turn back over while I was gone and died. So DO NOT try to train your geese or ducks to stay on their backs. It can and will kill them. Just like with horses can not lay on their sides to long because their insides with cause them to suffocate and die!
I hope this is what you ladies were talking about....

Thanks for replying. I just spent an hour and a half researching this with no luck. I am going to post some of the links since I spend much of the time going through unrelated stuff. I didnt read every word on every link that I am going to post so maybe I missed something, but from what I have read, turning a bird on its back doesnt suffocate it or kill it. There are many things involved. Which is probably why I was able to spend hours sitting on the couch with my scovie duckling in the baby position. She never struggled to get up or struggled for breath in fact she was quite happy being an inside bird. (When we got the four white ducklings, I put her outside with them and she is a happy healthy bird).

What I found is that birds breathe differently than mammals. Our exhale is passive. Birds lack a diaphragm so they have to contract their muscles in order to exhale. Birds can get held too tightly and suffocate because they arent able to contract those muscles in order to breath properly. I also read that the airflow through the sacs has a great role in temperature regulation. Maybe what happens with the ducks that get stuck on their backs and die is that they have a hard time contracting those muscles in order to breathe correctly and their temperature drops?? Just a guess..

I will ask my vet this week and reply back. For now I will post the links and if someone happens to read something I missed, let us all know. It shouldnt be so hard to find this kind of information but what I keep finding is brooding information and monitoring the air sac in the egg. In case someone else wants to try and search for the answer, I suggest googling "avian respiration". All in all, a good pet owner listens to their animals. The animal will tell you if your doing something wrong in most cases. I wont train anymore of my birds to lay on their backs while I hold them like a baby, but I do think distress played a big part in the death of the ducklings stuck on their backs.

 

[andreacroyle]

Thanks for replying. I just spent an hour and a half researching this with no luck. I am going to post some of the links since I spend much of the time going through unrelated stuff. I didnt read every word on every link that I am going to post so maybe I missed something, but from what I have read, turning a bird on its back doesnt suffocate it or kill it. There are many things involved. Which is probably why I was able to spend hours sitting on the couch with my scovie duckling in the baby position. She never struggled to get up or struggled for breath in fact she was quite happy being an inside bird. (When we got the four white ducklings, I put her outside with them and she is a happy healthy bird).

What I found is that birds breathe differently than mammals. Our exhale is passive. Birds lack a diaphragm so they have to contract their muscles in order to exhale. Birds can get held too tightly and suffocate because they arent able to contract those muscles in order to breath properly. I also read that the airflow through the sacs has a great role in temperature regulation. Maybe what happens with the ducks that get stuck on their backs and die is that they have a hard time contracting those muscles in order to breathe correctly and their temperature drops?? Just a guess..

I will ask my vet this week and reply back. For now I will post the links and if someone happens to read something I missed, let us all know. It shouldnt be so hard to find this kind of information but what I keep finding is brooding information and monitoring the air sac in the egg. In case someone else wants to try and search for the answer, I suggest googling "avian respiration". All in all, a good pet owner listens to their animals. The animal will tell you if your doing something wrong in most cases. I wont train anymore of my birds to lay on their backs while I hold them like a baby, but I do think distress played a big part in the death of the ducklings stuck on their backs.

Opps forgot about the links. Yes... I do have adhd =)

Here is a link to Holderread's Book of Geese. I didnt find anything in it about the air sac but it is a good read.
http://www.cd3wd.com/CD3WD_40/JF/414/05-234.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_anatomy

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2721

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/birdrespiration.html
http://www.thewonderofbirds.com/biology/air-sacs.htm

 

[Miss Lydia]

Thank you for going to all the time to look into this and also appreciate you talking to your vet about it. Actually I have held my Muscovy Drake on his back like a baby a few times not for long and he didn't seem in the least distressed about it. But i do think your right about the ducklings.

How"s Forrest doing?

 

[RURU]

When a gosling falls on it's back it struggles to right itself because it is Not a natural position for them to lay on. This is why they fight and can cause their death. So in all I feel that no bird re guard less of what species should not be held on it's back too because it can cause a problem some where along the line. Because we think it is cute is not a reason to teach them to lay on their backs.

I would like to hear what a veterinarian will say about birds in general laying on their back. I know mine do not do it at any point and when they fall on their back struggle so hard to get off of it..

My gosling that died on it's back was a 4 week old and nice weigh and healthy as can be and died while on it's back because I found it that way when I came home from dialysis.. I was just horrified it died.

 

[The goose girl]

I would like to hear what a veterinarian will say about birds in general laying on their back. I know mine do not do it at any point and when they fall on their back struggle so hard to get off of it..

When my goose had surgery the vets made sure she wasn't lying on her back. The vets said that the weight of her chest could suffocate her. A goose's lungs are located nearer its back than its chest. My two vets have a combined 70(!) years of experience between them and both take special interest in birds, so I guess they know what they're talking about.

I don't know if this applies to healthy geese not put under anesthesia, but I wouldn't chance it.

 

[Chaneys Ranch]

Thanks everyone for the comments about my terrible trio. We have around 40 geese here, and I am seeing the girls going off with other groups. They were a very late hatch last year. My hens laid late in the season, this was the last 3. I am working towards cutting the flock for winter, so they are still on the sale list. We keep only the best temperament and parenting behaviors for the flock.
I still can't face the idea of a goose for a food animal, but these 3 almost pushed me to that point! So they will be rehomed, and the birds with normal temperament will stay. I have an Embden gander that will also leave, he continually attacks the goslings, not acceptable!