Geese training?

Hi Olive Hill

Just wanted to say thank you for that excellent post on goose behaviour and management. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it
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Pete
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Olive Hill -
I'm a new goose owner and have found this post extremely informative. My pair is 4 years old and seem very calm. At least I know what to do if the gander starts feeling aggressive.

Thanks so much-
Em
 
Olive Hill! I nearly peed with the whole victory lap thing! Too dang funny. I never really think about it when Im out there with the critters but I wouldnt be surprised to see myself on youtube one day running around the yard flapping my "wings" like a crazy person! My neighbor probably DOES think Im a nut!

So far Ive been lucky. My geese treat me with tenderness and respect. When I sit with them they come up and sing a soft song and lay down by my side but one in particular(Glenn) gets a little pushy at feeding time so I use the ol foot bump to back him up and he fusses but he backs away. I pen mine up at night and there has been a couple times when they decided they didnt want to go to bed....all I have to do is get out a stick and they know I mean business. Funny thing is, I would NEVER hit them with it. I just get it out and they think, "OH GOSH WHATS THAT THING FOR" and go right to bed.

Thanks for the informative and quite hilarious post. I appreciated it very much. This is my first time owning geese and Im positively head over heels in love. I dont think people realize how extremely intelligent geese are and they make wonderful pets BUT.... I agree, you HAVE to let them know where you stand in the order of things or, just like with any intelligent creature, youll get taken advantage of.

Great Topic!
 
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Great discussion!! I don't have any geese yet, but I will in the spring (just got my order off to holderreads). I sent it to terrielacy and requested it as a sticky for future reference. I said that it is GREAT info for a new goose owner (me
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), an owner with small children (me again
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) or someone who has just never had a problem goose before..... or trying to prevent ever having one. I also can laugh at the image of myself running around the yard flapping my wings at a silly overly confident goose, while the silly nigerian dwarf doelings run and buck behind me with my naked 3 year old son runs behind him fishtailing the whole way! (Yes he is always running around the yard naked and yes he thinks he's a monster truck most of the time. HEEHEE) Good times!! Awesome info!!
 
I'm glad you all enjoyed it and found it helpful. And yes, I'm rather certain all friends, neighbors, family and acquaintances have determined me to be absolutely bat-poo crazy at this point.
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Oh well.

Geese are incredible animals. Very intelligent, extremely social, low maintenance, valuable from an input v. output standpoint. They do not deserve the bad reputation they have. I believe 99.9% of human-goose problems are a result of owner error.
 
Just wanted to let you know that I had to pin my Gander to the ground yesterday. I hope I did it right. He was coming after me so I grabbed his neck and scooped him up tightly against me. Then I flipped him over on his back and pinned him to the ground for about a minute. He was silent and the female was observing....the only thing I forgot to do was to prance around all big afterwards. Well I have to say he ran away and seemed to be fine after that......yet after a few hours he was trying to regain dominance again......I feel pretty confident about grabbing him and pinning him now but I must have done something wrong since it really did not last......Maybe it was because I forgot the Goose dance????
It is really ashame my Gander has become so aggressive towards me I used to enjoy them both so much.......now all they do is honk at me......Yes they still follow me all over the place but later in the evening I caught him trying to nip me from behind.......I will attempt to do it again today as long as I am doing it correctly he should get it won't he??????
 
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I haven't had to do this with geese, but with all social animals, once they've decided they're one up from you, it may take repeated efforts to convince them differently. no one wants to give up status you know...
consistant, decisive management is the thing. if they get away with stuff sometimes, they'll keep trying. you might move the correction up a little in time, don't wait for him to charge you.... if he even looks like he's THINKING about charging you, pin him.
basically he needs to be so respectful of you that he can't even start a dominance behavior.

I've got a nice dairy goat buck that is just getting to his full maturity and this spring I had to turn him over repeatedly. as he was starting to run full adult male hormones he decided that I was part of his herd and I should be made to move when he wanted me to. He's got a nice rack of horns and he's probably 175 lbs and could be dangerous if not respectful, so I spent one afternoon flipping him on his back. he's a tough guy and I probably had to turn him over 18 or 20 times and sit on him before he decided that I really was Goddess of All Goats and She Who Must Be Respected.

it might have taken fewer flips if I had started turning him over when he just dropped his head in my direction instead of waiting for him to show the start of charging warm-up... my error.

goats and geese are different, but they're both herd (flock) animals with a strong social structure, so I'm thinking the same general rules apply.

keep at it, be consistant, don't tollerate any bad behavior and you should be able to change your gander's ranking in *your* flock.
 
Even when they get the Zoomies and run somewhere flapping their wings.
(They always fold their wings when they get close to me, if they were running to greet me, and gabble as if they are recounting the day's events.)

Excellent word for the running up to you!
I just thought of the show "The Electric Company" (the old version)

Beth​
 
One only needs to observe a gaggle of geese interacting with one another to know what they do and do not understand.

Geese will not understand if you randomly haul off and whack them, but that goes for any animal and I've yet to see anyone advocate such a thing here. Geese will understand if you get physical with them in the same way that they get physical with each other.

A goose fight almost always begins the same way. One goose, whom either believes himself alpha to or wish to be alpha to another, hands out discipline for a behavioral infraction. It may be that Goose A believed Goose B grazed too close to him, or Goose B may have walked between Goose A and his favorite mate. Whatever the infraction Goose A disciplines Goose B. This may be a nip, it may be a snaked neck and a wing spread, it may be a hiss. Whatever the discipline Goose B has two choices. 1) He may accept it and obey by refraining from the behavior in question (and generally removing himself from Goose A's immediate vicinity) or 2) he may challenge Goose A to exert his own dominance thereby proving his actions were not wrong -- the dominant goose does as he pleases and therefore, if Goose B proves HE is, infact, dominant then his behavior was not punishable.

So lets stop here and relate this to a human goose interaction. Say you have a Gander, who we will simply call Gander for the purpose of this exercise. You are weeding your flowerbed when Gander nips you. Here we have Goose A disciplining Goose B. This means that Gander either believes himself alpha to you or wishes to be alpha to you and has chosen this opportunity to try to exert that dominance. You have two choices. You can accept the discipline by not effectively reminding him of the true hierarchy of your relationship. Or you can put him in his place. Obviously we know the appropriate choice here. You need to challenge his discipline to determine, in no uncertain terms, that you are alpha to him.

So lets go back to our goose on goose interaction. Goose B has decided that he will challenge Goose A's discipline. What does he do here? He meets Goose A's advance with an equal advance of his own. Usually this is the point in the interaction where wings begin to spread and necks snake. Goose B snakes his neck and spreads his wings at Goose A. This says "You may NOT discipline ME!"

So lets go back to a human goose interaction at this point. This is why I always encourage people to spread their arms, posture and snake their neck as the first line of defense against an advancing Gander. This is what he understands as the first step in a challenge to him. This gives him the option to back down before the interaction must escalate to a physical one. Many, many, many ganders will stop right here. They are bluffers, those geese. They like to talk a big game, but are not often prepared to actually play the game they talk. But what if he doesn't?

If Goose A decides not to back down when Goose B does not accept his discipline this is the point at which their interaction gets physical. They will dance around at one another, much like boxers in a ring, until one sees an opening to grab the other by the base of the neck. Once one grabs on, they both grab on.

Now, it's not really reasonable for you to be dancing around in a circle with a goose waiting for an opening to grab him by the base of the neck so you can beat the tar out of him with your "wings" (we'll get to the beat the tar out of one another portion in a moment). It's also not fair to the goose because you don't have a base of the neck at his level onto which HE can grab. So what's a goose owner to do? Look at what comes next in the goose to goose interaction.

Once they have ahold of one another, before the beating begins, what happens in this natural position? Their chests bump. Hard.

So what can you do that he will understand as the second step in a challenge? Bump his chest. Hard. This is also why blunt toed boots are excellent foot wear for chores. A good, hard chest bump tells the gander you will fight him over this. He understands it, it the normal progression in a challenge. It also mimics the natural dynamic between two geese as when you bump him he will be tossed back a little bit, losing his ground on you. When two geese are bumping one another it causes them to occasionally lose their grip on the opposing goose.

What happens if the chest bump isn't sufficient? Do it again. It would truly be a rare gander that would escalate an interaction to the bump stage and then not follow through after just one bump. In a goose on goose fight they will repeatedly bump and push one another with their chests. I, personally will bump up to five or six times before taking it further. This, imo, also mimics their natural progression. It also gives him ample opportunity to rethink his actions.

But what if he doesn't? What comes after the chest bump? Here's where the goose on goose action gets ugly. What comes after chest bumping, to put it bluntly, is beating the ever loving poop out of one another with their wings. This can take a long time, is likely to result in many large bruises and sometimes only ends when one or both geese are literally so exhausted they cannot possibly carry on.

I do not recommend getting into a wing beating match with a goose. It will hurt. And the bruises will last for weeks. I have never been in a wing beating match with a goose but I have had to break up wing beating matches between geese and the size and severity of the bruises I can assure you are not worth engaging them in the exact language they speak. Instead, like the grabbing onto the base of the neck, we need to look just a little bit further in the fight to see what happens. Now, some goose fights resolve themselves during the wing beating match. Those are usually the less evenly matched fights. Your goose does not realize he is not evenly matched with you however, so it's okay if we ignore those fights and focus on the fights that progress to the sheer exhaustion stage. In these fights the beating continues for what seems like forever, when one or both (usually both in an evenly matched fight) begins to tire it slows, they start throwing those chest bumps they used in the beginning back into the mix as it's less taxing and eventually one goose will fully pin down the other. In essence, whichever goose is more exhausted ends up pinned -- and therefore the loser. The pinning goes on for a few seconds to a minute, however long the winner feels like punishing the loser and then the loser is let up to tuck tail and run.

So if we skip the wing beating for our human-goose interaction what we need to do is skip straight to the pinning. You can do this one of two ways, you can literally pin him to the ground or you can pick him up and hold him very firmly with an attitude of meaning business. Both accomplish the same thing. They immobilize the goose, with force, for an amount of time the goose has no control over. One thing to remember when doing this is the goose should be positioned to run from you when you set him down. So if you pin him on the ground, you should swing him around to face away from you.

And finally we have the victory lap stage. No matter how exhausting the fight you will not see an alpha gander let a good beating go unacknowledged. He will spread his wings, stand tall, run to his gaggle and honk his head off about it. Now, your neighbors may find you quite amusing (and possibly insane) if you were to run around your yard honking with your arms spread out like wings. But you CAN mimic the effect by saying something aloud. I like "THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT!" in the retreating goose's general direction for good measure. (note: I in no way guarantee this will exempt you from being seen as the neighborhood crazy. LOL!) But this is, of course, optional. Though a good touch, I must say.

So, to recap. In a goose on goose interaction you have.

The Discipline -- Can manifest in many ways.
The Challenge -- Usually snaked necks and spread wings
The Dance
The Neck Grab
The Chest Bumping
The Wing Beating
The Exhaustion
The Pinning
The Retreat (for the loser)
The Victory Lap (for the winner)

For human to goose interactions we can cut the list down.

The Discipline -- Can manifest in many ways. Any unacceptable behavior by a goose should be interpreted as this step.
The Challenge -- Snake your neck, spread your wings, posture over him, hiss for good measure.
The Chest Bumping -- Remember: it's a rare goose who will give up after just one. Give him 3 - 6 bumps to change his mind.
The Pinning -- Grab the neck, turn the goose away from you and pin him with force. Either on the ground or in your arms. Hold.
The Retreat (for the loser) -- This is why you turned him away from you. Set him up for success, give him a clear retreat path.
The Victory Lap (for the winner) -- Optional. I guess.
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HTH!

As my gander is getting a bit hormonal with spring coming and breeding season is almost here for my area, I just wanted to thank you for this information. I know this thread is a bit older but the method is good to know. My female is always good but I have had to do some chest bumping on my gander lately. I have had to pin him down a number of times in the last few weeks too. My guess is that as breeding season gets going I will be making good use of this information...I don't want to hurt him and this method is safe (even gentle compared to what they do to each other) even if a bit rough looking but I need him to know better then to hurt me or anyone else.
 
Olive Hill-thank you so much for describing the discipline in detail. I will receive my first pair of Chinese geese in May. I'm sure this will be helpful!
 

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