Genetic Difference- Mille Fluer & Speckled Sussex? WHAT's missing?

[tadkerson]

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no, i can not explain now. i hurt my back and sitting and writing is painful. i hope i remember to come back to this thread.

tim

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

to get a true porcelain, you have to cross a MILLIE FLUER to a lavender. The buff dilution is what give that beautiful cream color on the porcelains.

It will take a few years to get them though, first will be black split to mottled and lavender, keep crossing back til you get where you want to be, but no it doesnt work with mahogany based birds.
Tim can explain better once he's back, I've never worked with mahogany based birds, just the buff based, but it take reall millies to get real porcelains

You can get a lavender based ss though. But it will be darker over all, not a porcelain color

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

HinkJC can explain it too. If you look at his work towards the Jubilee Orpington, you will see he has crossed Speckled Sussex to Buff Orpington as one of two first crosses. The birds come out a lovely solid ginger color. Now, according to the chicken calculator, those birds bred back to each other will turn out true Mille Fleur with the buff base.

So, that F2 bird THEN bred to Lavender will throw a minuscule percentage of Porcelain offspring. If you hit the jackpot and get both a cock and a hen without hatching out 567 birds, and breed those to each other, you will have true breeding porcelain.

A faster way to get porcelain would be to use a Cream Brabanter and a Lavender whatever. That should throw porcelain, black patterned cream mille fleur (like the Cream Brabanter) and regular buff Mille Fleur with various modifiers and many split for lavender.

 

[dldolan]

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Tim, hope you feel better soon. Backs are such a problem, and I am very sympathetic!

Thanks everyone for taking the time to explain. There is a lot to learn about chicken color genetics, and I find it fascinating.
On the bolded comment above: MF Cochins don't come in LF, as far as I have been told. Thus my quest...

Which breeds throw porcelain in LF?

My two new girls:

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Maybe HinkJC will be willing to sell a project bird you, other than that, LF don't have a good Milile Fleur representative in the US. Most all that I can think of are mahogany based, and would require a couple generations to get to a true millie fleur.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

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Yep if you cant find a millie based one, then you'll have the joy of making them in millie LF first before you could get reall lavender.
Start with bantam millies and begin breeding to large fowl till you get them right, then cross to lavender and work a few years on that.

It takes a lot of time, but it's fun, I'm really enjoying all of it myself

 

[dldolan]

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Yep if you cant find a millie based one, then you'll have the joy of making them in millie LF first before you could get reall lavender.
Start with bantam millies and begin breeding to large fowl till you get them right, then cross to lavender and work a few years on that.

It takes a lot of time, but it's fun, I'm really enjoying all of it myself

Great info, everyone! So, out of interest and curiosity in pondering the options for these two new girls, what will I get from the following hypothetical crosses? Ignore standards for breeds for now, and focusing on feather color:
Hen Rooster
SS x Lavendar Ameraucana
SS x Wheaten Ameraucana
SS x Splash Marans

Inquiring minds want to know...!

Also, how do my girls look as far as color? I can't find a good description for a breed standard so far online... I think the hens are only supposed to have brown and white tails, though, not any black in them??

 

[mboreham1]

great read, i dont fully understand genetics, back breeding etc, trying to learn more here.

What is the name of the breed posted above? By far my favourite chicken is a mille fleur d'uccle, is this a red version? I want a couple!

 

[dldolan]

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Thanks. This is a Speckled Sussex hen. BIG girls...!

 

[tadkerson]

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no, i can not explain now. i hurt my back and sitting and writing is painful. i hope i remember to come back to this thread.

tim

Using a lavender ameraucana would not be a good choice. The bird carries the lavender gene and that is about all that is good about the cross. If you could get a lavender breed, like a lavender orpington, then you would have much easier time at obtaining a porcelain sussex.

Using an ameraucana, would introduce way too many genes that you would have to deal with. My advise is to find another lavender bird to use. The breeding regimen with the ameraucana would take many years to bring to fruition.

If you can find a lavender orpington, give me a PM and I will discuss a breeding regimen.

Tim