Genetic help needed.

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Correct. It is mostly a male trait because of male versus female primary patterns. Females display ground colour on their breasts, and it is less and more easily melanized. Males can display ground colour on head, hackle, back, saddle, tail & wing triangle, shoulder and bar. Needs a lot more melanizders to cover.

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
Correct. It is mostly a male trait because of male versus female primary patterns. Females display ground colour on their breasts, and it is less and more easily melanized. Males can display ground colour on head, hackle, back, saddle, tail & wing triangle, shoulder and bar. Needs a lot more melanizders to cover.

It may be mostly a male trait, as you say..... but it does happen in females too.

I will look for my picture.

 

[Henk69]

We are talking about the so called "extended black" chickens here.
This mutation (E) on it's own produces almost black females, but the males still show a lot of groundcolor on their hackles, saddle and shoulder/back. The most obvious difference with black breasted red (e+) is the crow wing, the absence of the groundcolor wing triangle.

The females are also less "rusty" because some melanizers (black enhancers like melanotic Ml) are more effective on them.

If you cross two unrelated black chickens of which at least one is Extended black-based the offspring could still be rusty because some of their melanizers could be different.

So yes, the gold or silver gene should not matter and in my opinion the presence of e+ itself does not matter that much either.
It is the (lack of) melanizer genes that cause this.
But red enhancer genes, like autosomal red and mahogany, could also cause some leakage in theory.

Hope that helps.

 

[tazcat70]

Quote:
Ok, so let me see if I understand.

You are saying that these birds ground color is most likely red, and that while normally this doesn't cause any problems, when a bird with different or less melanizers, the red leaks out. So in this case the only way to breed it out of a line is to cull any who are showing the leakage.

Let's say that you cull all that are showing it, in this case roosters, but it is still appearing in the next generation. This means that it was passed down from the hens side?

I am working on blue laced red. Since the red is already in their genetic makeup, will they help my project?

I am including pictures of my cockerals feathers.

Thanks everyone for helping me to understand this.

 

[Henk69]

You did the cross for a purpose so culling all doesn't help...

Exactly. The hens don't show it (that much) but still pass the same genes to their offspring as their rusty brothers.
That's why I advice against crossing solid blacks with non solid blacks if you want to go for solids (unicolor/self).

If you want to get rid of the rust, backcross to the non rusty parents. This will bring the melanizers back the fastest.

 

[tazcat70]

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If both parents look non rusty? Do you just choose the one who most closely matches your ideal bird?

 

[Henk69]

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If both parents look non rusty? Do you just choose the one who most closely matches your ideal bird?

Don't get the point of your question...

 

[tazcat70]

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Don't get the point of your question...

Sorry,

My question is that if both parents do not show the leakage, how do I choose which parent to breed back to? The obvious answer is to breed to the parent that will reach my goal.

 

[Henk69]

In case of the female parent. She should be from a rustfree line.
A rustfree male has more garantuee.