Genetic related wry tail? Or just previous environment?

[Sir Sacabambaspis]

Since my original phoenix rooster hurt his leg pretty badly and a friend of mine just so happened to be getting rid of a 7 months old pair of Phoenix. So I decided I'd get them to add a hen to my ornamental flock. That wait I also have a back up rooster Incase my current one doesn't end up making it through his leg injury. I got then late in the evening and by the time I got home the sun had been down a while and my lighting wasn't super good. Although they had looked alright when he showed them to me, I was only just now able to get a good look at them in the sunlight. They hadn't been in the biggest setup (a rabbit cage to be exact) so I'm wondering if their tails are weird because of the space limit... Or if it's something genetically problematic.

The female has a fairly teardrop/streamline body except for when she tips her tails to the side every now and then seemingly without control. She doesn't seem too awfully bad and I'm honestly not sure about if it's actually wry tail or not.

And then there's the male... I've had some cases of wry tail in my own breeding throughout the years and I've only had two cases this bad which I pulled from my project. I know that genetic issues such as wry tail must be from breeding stock as it's irresponsible to use such birds in breeding. I'm hopeful it's just developmental non genetic related issues but I'm worried that's not the case...

This is my little 3 month old phoenix hen from proper show quality parents with her perfect teardrop/streamline body for comparison.

 

[sourland]

My gut instinct is that this is genetic, and I would not use them for breeding.

 

[Amer]

My gut instinct is that this is genetic, and I would not use them for breeding.

X2

 

[MysteryChicken]

Since my original phoenix rooster hurt his leg pretty badly and a friend of mine just so happened to be getting rid of a 7 months old pair of Phoenix. So I decided I'd get them to add a hen to my ornamental flock. That wait I also have a back up rooster Incase my current one doesn't end up making it through his leg injury. I got then late in the evening and by the time I got home the sun had been down a while and my lighting wasn't super good. Although they had looked alright when he showed them to me, I was only just now able to get a good look at them in the sunlight. They hadn't been in the biggest setup (a rabbit cage to be exact) so I'm wondering if their tails are weird because of the space limit... Or if it's something genetically problematic.

The female has a fairly teardrop/streamline body except for when she tips her tails to the side every now and then seemingly without control. She doesn't seem too awfully bad and I'm honestly not sure about if it's actually wry tail or not. View attachment 4267079View attachment 4267081
And then there's the male... I've had some cases of wry tail in my own breeding throughout the years and I've only had two cases this bad which I pulled from my project. I know that genetic issues such as wry tail must be from breeding stock as it's irresponsible to use such birds in breeding. I'm hopeful it's just developmental non genetic related issues but I'm worried that's not the case... View attachment 4267086View attachment 4267088View attachment 4267090
This is my little 3 month old phoenix hen from proper show quality parents with her perfect teardrop/streamline body for comparison. View attachment 4267093View attachment 4267094

Could be Diet related. A deficiency in Vitamin E can cause wry tail as well. I won't jump to Genetics right away, unless it physically crops up in the breeding of the affected birds offspring.

 

[Sir Sacabambaspis]

My gut instinct is that this is genetic, and I would not use them for breeding.

X2

I was kinda worried that's what y'all would say. I'll try boosting their feed for a few weeks before deciding whether they're getting better or if I need to remove them from my breeding project. I know someone else with a few phoenix mixes so I might reach out to them to get a good look at what they have beforehand so I make sure I get an as close to perfect rooster as possible. If I decide to remove the pair from the project due to their tails not fixing... Should I cull them? I don't have the ability, space, or money to keep extra birds I'm not using especially roosters that are unusable in breeding. Any ideas?

 

[Sir Sacabambaspis]

Could be Diet related. A deficiency in Vitamin E can cause wry tail as well. I won't jump to Genetics right away, unless it physically crops up in the breeding of the affected birds offspring.

I'm gonna give them extra vitamins. I already have an above average level feed for my birds, good custom blend if I do say so myself. Hopefully they'll get better with time

 

[FunClucks]

Not sure diet will fix that. If the bones etc form wrong, diet now that things have already formed won't fix the problem. Can't hurt to try though.

I had one with Wry tail (see my profile picture). She had a tail but looked rumpless, and only ever grew 5 singular tail feathers. Laid great eggs. Was an ISA brown. Fed her Purina Flockraiser 20% protein her whole life. Never got better.

I didn't supplement with vitamin E, as I didn't know that might help.

 

[SourRoses]

Having dealt with wry tail occasionally popping up in my project from an outcross, I have to say just don't do it.
Culling has to be harsh against it by necessity, and while that's tolerable for offspring that have any other wrong traits, it's very annoying when it's the only thing wrong in an otherwise lovely bird.
Easier to pass on using birds you just acquired than lose offspring you put effort into producing, repeatedly for XYZ generations.

One thing I try to watch for is that some chickens use their tails as rudders and some don't. If I see an off tail I have to pull up a chair and watch them move. If it freely shifts to both sides as a consequence of how they're moving their head, that's fine.

In your pictures they are both in different poses and locations but their tails continue to be canted in the same directions. Definitely both wry. Without a way to prove nurture rather than nature, you have to assume genetics.

I would list them online as looking for a pet home, maybe offer them for free or low cost, as the money you would spend on feeding them during evaluation would be lost. So my mentality is I'm paying myself when I get rid of birds sooner.

 

[NatJ]

They hadn't been in the biggest setup (a rabbit cage to be exact) so I'm wondering if their tails are weird because of the space limit... Or if it's something genetically problematic.

Given that past history, I would probably wait a week or two and see if their tail carriage changes. If they were holding their tails sideways because of the cage they were in, you should see some improvement as they spend time in a larger space.

If the tails do not show any improvement in a week or two, I would probably assume it is something you do not want in your breeding program.

I would also pay attention to other traits. If you find some other reason that you do not want to breed those birds, that could make the whole decision easier.