genetically altered meat birds

[eatmorechicken]

Quote:
OOH! ME! I DO!

 

[alaina]

Wow, what an interesting thread! In my experience, the only really tender chix I have been able to raise myself was the cornishX. Other breeds ended up being tough (unless stewed) but admittedly more tasty. Wondering if anyone has tried breeding their own chix at home, with for instance, barred rocks X dark cornish? Do these end up being the weak legged messes that the ones are that you get from the hatcheries? (white feathered ones), or are they more hardy because they are not from the hatchery?
I also am wholeheartedly in favor of food labeling, I want a choice, and prefer to raise my own if I can!!

 

[Brunty_Farms]

I read the first post, not sure how I missed this, however I didn't read all six pages of it. Those are some bold statements regarding pastured poultry, and the commercial broiler. It's funny, because none of those things stated in that post are remotely true in my particular situation. I appreciate the breakdown but I have tried multiple DP birds in the past and can honestly say that they aren't comparable in any way... in my opinion. Most of the flavor that you speak of is from the age of the bird... not the breed. If you want to seek out a particular flavor due to age then growing the commercial broiler an extra few weeks, gives you just that, along with way more meat. The average person, even with given a sample of each would go after the CX, it's proven daily. I eat my extra buckeye DP roosters regularly, they are great, however I can't stay in business if I had to charge $7.00 / pound for my chicken. That's about what it would cost someone if I would sell it. By the time my time is added up you can figure they are extremely more expensive to raise. YES, my time is extremely valuable and in some cases priceless. SO many people forget about the time that is invested with projects. If it's a hobby that's great, there is a sense of enjoyment regardless of how many hours you spend. When it's a business, time is money, and with so many pastured poultry producers across the country... saved time is more than money. It's time away from the farm, time with family or friends, time is priceless when your a farmer.

Here are some quick points to think about.

1) Pastured poultry producers are in the business to make a profit just like any other business. A better bird makes a better product. Right now, it's the Cornish x rock. Am I too stubborn to try a new and improved bird than the CX? No.... This post was written three years ago... not much has changed for my business except that I grow a lot more CX than my Buckeyes.

2) CX birds are designed to gain weight! Why is that a crime? First and foremost, they are not layers. We aren't in the early 19th century where all chickens were created equal. Times have changed and like you said, a better bird came along and people went for it.

3) CX birds do not die for no reason, common misconception with first time broiler raisers. I still lose birds on accident for stupid reasons. I know what I did wrong and I'm quick to take note of it to try and not let it happen again. Heat shouldn't be an issue, number one problem with heat is airflow. Put a fan on them if they need to cool down. Again they aren't a layer, they are much bigger and create much more heat. Our broilers can sustain heat of 105 for a few weeks. Shade, water, and airflow... however they don't gain much when it's that hot.

4) No ones breaking your arm to raise CX. Sometimes they just aren't for everyone... and that's fine. However they do fit the bill for a lot of people and producers, and at least in my case, I know that I've done a good job providing great clean food.

From what I got from this post you were comparing pastured poultry producers to commercial producers. The link between the two is the bird, nothing else. Like anything though, you have good and bad. I've seen people call them pastured poultry and be downright horrible, nothing more than a glorified chicken hoarder. However on the other end, I've seen some commercial facilities that would blow your mind, some are great at what they do and provide clean meat.

 

[paduanchook]

now one can deny that great grandmas chicken was absolutely scrumptious, they had an art to cooking. the ones that could used certain breeds for certain dishes, your birds can be cooked tender, my mom can do it, and the flavor is fantastic,
im partial to game crosses. la fleche crosses. i would like pure la fleche if i can get them up to size, and im working on it.

 

[paduanchook]

brunty, you are right in many ways, that was an article written by harvey usuary and i forgot to copy over credit. i thot it was interesting.

my opinion is rhis:

if your in it for money and its an issue, cx is prob for you. i dont raise them anymore, my heritage breeds are more self sufficient, as i dont have time to baby sit cx. they are messier and more fragile than my heritage birds and not near as fun to watch. whats wrong with a faster growing bird? nothing. but flavor is nutrition, nutrition is flavor. im a hobby farmer and i dont spend any more on my heritage than my broilers.
i do have a few red broilers i raise, they arent difficult but boy do they eat. i have a larger window to kill my ranging heritage birds than my broilers. if i dont have time for awhile to spend butchering, my broilers become pigs.

but when times get increasingly more difficult due to our politicians and weather change, only hardier self reliant birds will be the answer in my opinion.

 

[paduanchook]

i do also believe for now there is a need to feed the masses. cx fits that bill, as does the acres and acres of corn you see in the fields. but mass production has its price, nutrition is much lower than in heritage types. the tomatoe foe example, has lost over 60% of its nutrition(i think that nr is correct) and most of its flavor. its a shame one product is for the market and another in my garden for my own consumtion. just my ramblings....God bless

 

[eatmorechicken]

Here is the thing. Sustainable agriculture and sustainable alternatives were revived in response to the calamities of the Green Revolution. Cornish X are not a sustainable option, they are the product of the Green Revolution. They were designed for factory, assembly line, settings. I'm personally trying to get away from them, but its difficult because they are so dang economical. You could raise more birds in a shorter amount of time with less feed by the time of harvest. I personally believe that it is possible to be economically successful with heritage varieties, it will just take a little creativity and time to discover a low input method. When you raise CX and heritage the exact same way, the CX is monetarily superior. That's why they got phased out during the green revolution because we didn't change anything to make them compete with the new super hybrid.

In the 1850's more than half of the population were either farmers or lived in farming comunities. In 1950 rural labor was %15 of the workforce, making a sharp decline during the advent of the Green Revolution. Now rural labor is less than %1 of the workforce, and will continue to decline with the introduction of GM. WE have put the nations food in the hands of VERY few individuals who will do anything to make a profit at the cost of the integrity of the organism. Its a mentality that if an economy thrives, then the envrinomnet must suffer. The biggest problem I find with the Green Revolution is the lack of respect and admiration for ALL living things. I like the way Joel Salatin described this phenomon.

What happens when you don't ask: how do we make pigs happy? Well, you view the pig as just a pile of protoplasmic structure to be manipulated however cleverly human hubris can imagine to manipulate it. And when you view life from that kind of mechanistic, arrogant, disrespectful standpoint, you very soon begin to view all of life from a very disrespectful, arrogant, manipulative standpoint. And the fact is, we aren't machines."

So is the use of CX right? That's a personal judgement. If we wanted something that was unadulterated by man, then we all would be raising jungle fowl. Surely, chickens bred to meet the specific needs of its keeper is ethical. But one must ask, "when is enough manipulation enough?"

I draw the line at GM organisms. Chickens should be fit, active, and free from foreign DNA introduced by man.​

 

[galanie]

Quote:
x2

Not that I like CornishX either, but at least it only has Chicken genes in it.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Quote:
So is the use of CX right? That's a personal judgement. If we wanted something that was unadulterated by man, then we all would be raising jungle fowl. Surely, chickens bred to meet the specific needs of its keeper is ethical. But one must ask, "when is enough manipulation enough?"

I draw the line at GM organisms. Chickens should be fit, active, and free from foreign DNA introduced by man.

I agree, that's where I draw the line too. Plants I can understand, animals is just too far.

 

[A.T. Hagan]

Quote:
Do you not see the contradiction in what you are saying? The economics of them are what makes them sustainable. More meat for less feed in less time.

I personally believe that it is possible to be economically successful with heritage varieties, it will just take a little creativity and time to discover a low input method.

I sure hope you are right. It's why I keep reading these threads looking for ways to do just that.

But it hasn't happened yet and may never happen. I strongly suspect when it does happen those "heritage" birds are going to end up resembling Cornish X a lot more than they do today.

I don't like quite a lot of what modern day agriculture has become but I sure do like being able to walk into a grocery store to buy food that is cheap, abundant, and mostly of high quality. Back in days of yore this was often not the case. My old granny is 94 now and we've had many discussions about the quality of the food they used to buy back before the Second World War and how much it used to cost in terms of how long it took them to earn the money to buy those groceries. I would not go back to those days for anything. We eat far better than they did and for a lot less money.

I produce grass raised eggs and will eventually get into grass raised poultry meat. But I do not kid myself that it's anything other than a niche market. It's what I want and am willing to put my labor into. But I can't produce eggs remotely as cheaply as the modern day layer factories can nor could I produce broilers as cheaply either. I can produce better tasting, possibly healthier, products, but they'll come at a premium price. With some 12-14 million people unemployed in this country (as per last night's NPR story) and likely many more that are barely making ends meet there is a genuine need for wholesome food produced as inexpensively as possible. That's where the bulk of this planet's food production capacity needs to be and rightfully should be.

I keep reading these threads looking for ways to do it cheaper, easier, more cost effective and hopefully using birds that I can produce myself instead of having to mail-order them but progress has always been slow and may never achieve what we are looking for. Maybe one day, but we are far from it this day yet people still need to eat and need to be able to buy their food as inexpensively as possible. The Cornish X has been a godsend in that regard. Especially when managed by people who understand how to do so.​