genetics / color question

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by firedove, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. firedove

    firedove Chillin' With My Peeps

    Nov 10, 2008
    Fitzwilliam NH
    How would this gene map present as a color?

    eb/eb
    S/s+
    Ap/ap+
    Di/-
    Mh/-
    Co/-
    Pg/Pg
    Ml/-
    Hf/-

    It's really the Ap effect with the silver that I can't understand. I have a few genetics books but none explain the effects of Ap very well. Thanks!
     
  2. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Nov 29, 2008
    Groesbeek Netherlands
    Henny feathered incomplete black laced lemon/cream.

    Sebrights are birchen based E^R
    Substitute e^b with E^R and add Db/Db

    But I think you are steering towards the cocopop color... [​IMG]
    They might be wheaten based E^Wh.

    This is a demo about the supposed workings of autosomal red:
    http://home.hetnet.nl/~h.meijers69/overzicht.htm#seramacalculator

    Short description.
    Autosomal red enables the expression of red bodycolor on silver birds when permitted by the other genes (wheaten columbian darkbrown etc... ).
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2009
  3. firedove

    firedove Chillin' With My Peeps

    Nov 10, 2008
    Fitzwilliam NH
    I'm getting a much better grasp on Ap now after finishing another of my genetics books last night. I've always been a bit of a quick study when it comes to animal genetics. The gene map I gave is a likely result from breeding a SPW to a GLW. My two roos are going to be a SPW and a BLRW. I have hens in GL, SP, SL, Co, and BLR.

    Unfortunately I have no ability to create separate breeding pens so I am trying to figure out what I might end up with from the random breedings of my Wyandottes. I have a very good market for just backyard egg layers and fryers so I'm not too concerned about a pure line just now. I'm not going to be showing any time soon either so I'm mostly in it to learn and get eggs for now. I wanted a colorful flock so I got this eclectic mix.

    I know that the Ap causes some pheomelanin to leak through into silver based colors.

    Does the Di just dilute the amount of eumelanin, making a lighter silver based color? Maybe less mossy?

    I'm really trying to learn as much as I can before my chickens mature and start breeding each other.

    Thanks for your help so far!!!
     
  4. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Dilute doesn't affect eumelanins (black). It might whiten your silvers.
    Why do you think it is in there?
    I wouldn't worry too much about Ap.
    Your mixes won't be very well laced, too many het factors.

    I have to guess what SPW and GLW mean, but I think
    silver pencilled wyandotte and gold laced wyandotte... [​IMG]
     
  5. firedove

    firedove Chillin' With My Peeps

    Nov 10, 2008
    Fitzwilliam NH
    Yup you got it, silver penciled and gold laced Wyandottes. The rooster would be the silver penciled. All of my hens in question are Wyandottes as are the two roosters. I got the basic genetics of each color out of 'An Introduction to Color Forms of the Domestic Fowl' by Brian Reeder. The genes given I can only guess are just the important genes that come together to create that color.

    SPW according to the book = eb, S, ap+, Pg
    GLW " " = eb, s+, Ap, Di, Mh, Co, Pg, Ml

    I know without a doubt that nothing of any kind of color quality would come from the cross, I was just curious what an offspring from them might look like. I've always enjoyed animal genetics so I'm having fun figuring out what all my chickens' offspring might look like. This would just be a straight first generation cross. This also assumes that no recessives will surface.

    Thank you for correcting my error about Dilute. I went back and read that section again in Reeder's book and I understand exactly what you (and he) mean now.

    One assumption I have made may be incorrect where I have assumed that each of these genes (other than "e") only have two options per locus. For example Dilute, either Di or di+ Maybe I'm over simplifying and more than just two options exist for a lot more of these other genes?

    Always learning [​IMG] Thanks again for helping me out with this!
     
  6. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  7. Mahonri

    Mahonri Urban Desert Chicken Enthusiast Premium Member

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    North Phoenix
    My Coop
    WOW!

    You have spent a lot of time learning your stuff. I could literally spend DAYS learning on your website. VERY interesting.
     
  8. firedove

    firedove Chillin' With My Peeps

    Nov 10, 2008
    Fitzwilliam NH
    I have been to your page before but then sort of forgot about it. Someone had posted it on another thread a while back. I will spend the next few days going through it, Thanks!
     

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