Genetics for breeding a blue feathered show bird with black lacing

[Amer]

Okay this makes sense how color is distributed. I like looking into the science. Back in the day, since I'm in my 40's now, I really loved the Genetics class in High School. It was my favorite subject and I'm excited to breed chickens. It will be neat to accomplish this goal. Thank you to everyone on this thread for all your tips on this subject.

I love genetics. That's why I subscribe to the Pigeon Genetics Newsletter. Of course, it's only worth it if you are interested in pigeon genetics, but it's free info every month!

 

[Sic]

I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you can cross any black based laced (like gold laced wyandottes) with a self blue and get black (dark) lace on a blue. It would take some time though to get homozygous for laced/blue eggs, and you'll always be dealing with BBS, however, you could start with Whiting True Blues that are homozygous for blue egg.

 

[The Moonshiner]

I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you can cross any black based laced (like gold laced wyandottes) with a self blue and get black (dark) lace on a blue. It would take some time though to get homozygous for laced/blue eggs, and you'll always be dealing with BBS, however, you could start with Whiting True Blues that are homozygous for blue egg.

What are you calling "self blue"?
Self blue to me means lavender.

 

[Sic]

What are you calling "self blue"?
Self blue to me means lavender.

Lavender and blue are very similar, but different colors created by different genes. Basically shades of gray with lavender being lighter and more of an even color. The word "self" just means "same"; different breeders will use it in different ways, but here it was meant that the blue color was the same all over the bird without lacing or any other variation.
Before the lavender gene was properly identified and labeled "lavender" (lav) the variety (color) it created was called "self blue". However, now we know that both the phenotype and genotype of lavender and self blue are different. Blue is created when an otherwise black bird has one copy of the dominant blue (Bl) gene. It doesn't breed true. A blue chicken bred to a blue chicken will produce black, splash and blue chicks. Andalusian blue would be a prime example of the blue (Bl) color, but it has lacing so it is not what they call "self" blue.

 

[TexasBlues]

No.
It can be black.
From what I understand, the blue gene doesn't just make the feathers produce less eumelanin, it changes how the melanin is distributed.
Instead of the pigment being spread evenly over the bird, it is clustered and stacked, leaving areas of black and areas of white. The overall effect is grey.
IE: the grey areas in this comic. But this is at a microscopic level so you can't see the stacked pigments.
View attachment 3938117
The soft edges of feathers and the soft hackle feathers have a different structure so the pigment is structured differently as well, allowing black to show. Additionally, the Pattern and Melanotic genes can increase the amount of black at the edge of the feathers. (Pg was introduced to many Ameraucanas from Andalusians but due to it's linkage to the pea comb and blue egg genes I believe Ml was not.)

I’m glad you brought this up. I have a bird with a blue body base, but has black bars in his hackles.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Ya I was just wondering if you meant lavender or bbs blue.
But ya not important anymore.

 

[Leilukka]

I love genetics. That's why I subscribe to the Pigeon Genetics Newsletter. Of course, it's only worth it if you are interested in pigeon genetics, but it's free info every month!

I don't see much difference. I would think bird genetics is quite similar. What is the link?

 

[Amer]

I don't see much difference. I would think bird genetics is quite similar. What is the link?

Email [email protected] asking to subscribe to the newsletter. Also, there are lots of past newsletters posted online if you look up "pigeon genetics newsletter."

 

[AbL]

I think I have read somewhere that the pigment behaves diffrently with the type of feathers, something about density and in the example they brought up blue chickens. I have two pullets, blue but dark laced. (i'm not sure it's black, I have to check!) Or optically they seemed to be laced.
One has the occassional darker feather, the other not, but both have black or dark blue necks.. hence, the hackles shouldn't be black, if it's blue. It's curious. In the meantime here is a link I found, which might be helpful.