Genetics for dummies?!

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
The only colours are red and black.

Then there are genes that dilute one or both, or enhance one or both.

There are also genes that "move" pigment from it's normal area of the body or within the feather.

All of these genes work together to create the different varieties.

A gene is never dominant over a different gene, only over various alternatives of the same gene.

I don't know of any way to make it simpler; you can look at the Chicken Calculator or read Genetics of Chicken Colours, but those are the simplest I can think of as far as explanations go. You don't have to learn it all at once. Take a step or two, hold on for awhile as you get comfortable and more confident, then take another step.

Soulsong - Sonoran is right. Poultry genetics are just WAY more information than any one person can put into one simple chart. I've only been doing this a couple years, and I don't think I've so much as scratched the surface with the little bit that I've learned - the possibilities seem almost endless, and I really believe a chart like that could go on forever!!! It seems that as things stand right now, the only way to learn what you're asking is to research, research, research.

Henk did the best online "chart" that I'm aware of so far with his Chicken Calculator (http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html), which even has pictures in a drop down menu for ease of use. If you play with it a while, you will learn that you can tweak it a bit to suit your needs (example: for a blue mille fleur, click on the pic of the mille fleur, which will give you the genetic "recipe" for MF, and then go down and change the blue gene to "Bl/bl+ blue andalusian" to add that ingredient).

But learning to use the calculator requires some research, too. You need to know what gene combinations give the recipes behind the mixed varieties - maybe THAT is the type of chart we need in a sticky, like:

Crele = black breasted red + barring
Gold neck = mille fleur + dominant white *OR* mille fleur + splash
Porcelain = mille fleur + lavender
Isabel = lavender + buff

etc., etc., etc...
That could be pretty lengthy, too, I suppose, because sometimes its not that easy. But personally, the basics of that is the type of thing would have helped me out tremendously in the beginning - when I'd ask a question about a certain color/variety, and the answer was given in "genetic code", or when it spoke of alleles and loci, or when it just pointed me in the direction of the calculator with no explanation on how to use it, it just confused me further. I mean, I appreciated the effort behind the answers I received, but I think what I really needed was just quick recipe for the variety in question, and to learn how to tweak the calculator to include all the ingredients I needed in order to get the desired results. I see the same thing quite often here on BYC, and I would imagine many others feel like I did in the beginning. And *I* wasn't a total noob to avian genetics when I got into poultry - I already understood a bit of "what to what equals what", but couldn't tell you the why's and where's of how it all related to poultry - so as confused as *I* was (and sometimes STILL am), I can't imagine how other people feel when they don't have the advantage I had when I started.

The 2nd half of Genetics of Chicken Colours is exactly that--with photos, too

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:

chickencolours.com lists contact information for ordering it; there are only a very few copies left, if any.

 

[Penny Hen]

I want to tell you that I am so impressed with those of you who have mastered Chicken color genes. I used to think I got headaches figuring out sheep color genes. But this has caused me to have to step up my game. It has also given me some ideas about some color mysteries in sheep too. Mostly face and leg markings that don't make a lot of difference to the fleece but are fascinating to me anyway. I had not thought about melanizers and zones of color that can be darkened by a gene before. I understand Tim's view about being told that something was impossible to breed and then doing it and people telling him that he is wrong. Supposedly, in sheep eumelanin and pheomelanin can't express simultaneously, but I took wool samples from a warm black Shetland and scanned it into my computer with the scanner at high resolution (2500 pixels/sqare inch) and when I zoomed in there were red brown fibers amongst the black.

So I am still working the learning curve on the chickens but I am enjoying listening to all of you. As soon as I figure out why I can't load pictures from my computer any more and fix it I have some wild colored Olive Eggers who are half Black Copper Marans that I would love to know how to reverse engineer their genetics. One of them is red with black splashes and two black "eyes" symmetrically on his chest surrounded by a bigger ring of gold before changing back to the red again. He hasn't crowed yet but the mahogany red on his wings says rooster. If anyone is just dying to see that pm me with a email and I can send the picture to you direct and you can post it.

 

[Penny Hen]

Hey I straightened out on what I was doing wrong and now I am getting pics. These are my new Olive Egger chicks. I am pretty sure I have mostly roos but some are kind of splitting the fences. You know small comb but slightly pink. But I am more interested in figuring out some of the genetics.
Have any of you seen this pattern in Olive Eggers before? This is a cockrel from an Americana roo over BCMarans hens (unless my lysdexia

has struck again) In particular I am talking about the "eyes" on his breast. They remind me of the false eyes that caterpillars have to scare off predators.

Any chance the pattern could be reproduced?

 

[Penny Hen]

Oh here are my other ones. Little roo of course




The black one on my shoulder and the 3rd one are the same bird. He has pattern peeking out of the black.

The pullet in my hand is a charcoal color with black lacing. Not a blue. I was taking these with the computer camera and it cast a blue light on her.





Same for this older pullet/roo I not sure on this one.





Roo and very handsome. Has the barring on his lower wings and tail too.



This one has a tail but it it half normal size. It feels the right spade shape just really small.




This one is tailless. Has anyone else had throwbacks in Olive Eggers? The Maran (hen or roo?)side was out of the Bev Davis line.

 

[tadkerson]

Your birds need to age some more before you can actually determine their true color pattern. When they are sexually mature ( 5-6 months) you will have a good idea of the color pattern. The barring on the wings is most likely false autosomal barring associated with juvenile plumage and will go away when the bird molts in new feathers.

Your birds that are blue will stay blue. The others can change some.

Is your male bird a true Ameraucana or is it an easter egger. You should not get both silver and gold birds form the cross if the male is an Amerucana.

Tim

 

[Penny Hen]

Your birds need to age some more before you can actually determine their true color pattern. When they are sexually mature ( 5-6 months) you will have a good idea of the color pattern. The barring on the wings is most likely false autosomal barring associated with juvenile plumage and will go away when the bird molts in new feathers.

Your birds that are blue will stay blue. The others can change some.

Is your male bird a true Ameraucana or is it an easter egger. You should not get both silver and gold birds form the cross if the male is an Amerucana.

Tim

Thanks. That at least solves my dyslexic memory. It must have been a BCMaran roo over Americana hens. I am hoping that the large red/gold roo keeps he "eyes" on his breast though. That is such a cool unique feature. It reminds me of the huge false eyes on caterpillars.

I am curious about the tail genes too. One of the birds is totally tailess and another has a half sized tail, still properly spade shaped just very small. I wouldn't be surprised to see that in Americanas or EEs or Am/EEs, but I am surprised at it showing up with half of the parentage being Maran. Obviously, I don't quite understand the tail/tailless genes yet.

 

[tadkerson]

Thanks. That at least solves my dyslexic memory. It must have been a BCMaran roo over Americana hens. I am hoping that the large red/gold roo keeps he "eyes" on his breast though. That is such a cool unique feature. It reminds me of the huge false eyes on caterpillars.

I am curious about the tail genes too. One of the birds is totally tailess and another has a half sized tail, still properly spade shaped just very small. I wouldn't be surprised to see that in Americanas or EEs or Am/EEs, but I am surprised at it showing up with half of the parentage being Maran. Obviously, I don't quite understand the tail/tailless genes yet.

The tailless birds are most likely due to the expression of a combination of late feathering genes or the birds tail was pecked at by the other birds. Pecking can destroy the feather follicles so they do not grow in feathers. Be patient- they will grow in tails.

Tim

 

[branwyn]

I asked this somewhere else, but I think it was a thread no one was looking at:

We have a black Ameraucana hen, and I think a blue-wheaten Ameraucana rooster. They came from Sand Hill, and I ordered them as "Ameraucanas/Easter Eggers", so I'm not sure whether he's careful about the genetics in that group or whether they're more likely not to be true Ameraucanas. They're all about sixteen weeks old.

I really like this guy and his color, and I don't really want to get rid of him when I cull the flock this fall. On the other hand, I'm not sure I can justify keeping him if he's not being useful. Any idea what color offspring they might make?

Sorry the pictures are confusing, one is blurry (but the colors are right) and the other was taken at sunset, so a little on the dark side.

Thanks!

 

[HeritageSeekers]

Hello all,

I'm trying to figure out and dissect a project before starting. I run into conflicting information regarding creating citron and citron spangled. I find some refer to the cream gene (ig) to dilute and create the pale citron color. I then come across others that use the lavender gene to dilute red to lemon yellow... and call it lemon.

Can someone explain to me the basics of these two colors, citron and lemon? Are they a similar end with different paths of diluting?

Thanks!

p.s. Genetics are not my strong point.. though I'm working on it.