Genetics of the Fowl

[BirdHead]

So I bought this book via Amazon a year or so ago for $60, done some reading but it is very scientific.

https://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Fowl-Classic-Chicken-Breeding/dp/0972177035

I figure I would start a thread for those who have the book as well and need help understand parts of it as we'd all like to breed fabulous fowl, also I just wanted to see who all has this book and/or uses it for their programs!?

 

[Kiki]

I've not read this book.
I have a question ...would you spend the sixty dollars on it again?

 

[BirdHead]

I've not read this book.
I have a question ...would you spend the sixty dollars on it again?

I have not finished the book as its huge and full of info, however I do not believe I'd buy the book again as a lot of the information doesn't pertain to the type of breeding I'm looking into, however it does talk a lot about domestic birds more and so forth, I do honestly think it'd help a breeder who wants to experiment with his common chicken

 

[Kiki]

I have not finished the book as its huge and full of info, however I do not believe I'd buy the book again as a lot of the information doesn't pertain to the type of breeding I'm looking into, however it does talk a lot about domestic birds more and so forth, I do honestly think it'd help a breeder who wants to experiment with his common chicken

Thanks!

 

[scottcaddy]

So I bought this book via Amazon a year or so ago for $60, done some reading but it is very scientific.

https://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Fowl-Classic-Chicken-Breeding/dp/0972177035

I figure I would start a thread for those who have the book as well and need help understand parts of it as we'd all like to breed fabulous fowl, also I just wanted to see who all has this book and/or uses it for their programs!?

Have you ran across @CanuckBock yet?
She knows alot about Fowl Genetics, and can help you with some of your questions.
Hope that you find out what you want to know.
Scott

 

[CanuckBock]

Heel low:

Have you ran across @CanuckBock yet?
She knows alot about Fowl Genetics, and can help you with some of your questions.
Hope that you find out what you want to know.
Scott

Waz that Scott...run me over with the krewl bus you say? Ran across Who, with What, & Where??

​

I list a bunch of decent "chicken" books on my website, bottom of each species page is a list of lovely reference materials for a good winter sit in a chair with yer dawg curl throw & read 50 pages.

http://www.wolven.ca/higgins/ratranch/

Fur chooks, yah go to the Chickens page (duh? ), scroll to bottom and thar you be, eh.

The best book for a person wanting to breed chickens up well and understand inheritance and how that pertains to us chickeny persons is Dr. Carefoot's book. It is about 200 pages and worth reading and RE-reading...and where is my copy...balanced precarious atop the TOP of my birdy books. Yeh, had it since like 2005 and still referencing it! STILL...

Yup, the man on the left that used Silkie crosses
housed in liquor store boxes
to hatch his future champions - eccentric mistrust of incubators!​

Like your own personal sit down chat with a magnificent genius breeder of birds.

Dr. W. Clive Carefoot was not just talk with no action...His Plymouth Rock roo was National Club Show Champion in 1980. His male Herbert's daughter, grandson, great grand-daughter and great, great grand-daughter won the same award the following four years in a row...not THAT's consistently doing what you do and doing it the BEST! He may have been humble, but I shout out he's a WEINER! LMBO

Now, given, he mighta been a tad weird but who here that keeps so focussed on the pursuit of happiness as their destiny don't come off a bit strange compared to the masses that remain simply mediocre stationed to a life of roaring dullness? An odd sod in the heap...well that be moi too!

If you own only one chicken book (past medical ones and a good vet to go to when things go wrong...) THAT is your stranded on deserted island with chickens book.

I own number 234 of 300 copies produced...
believe there was a second printing
but you'd best converse with Veronica
Got my copy!!! ​

- Creative Poultry Breeding, By W.C. Carefoot, MSc, PhD. Copyright 1985, Published by Veronica Mayhew in 2005.

He wrote the book and when Veronica (over in Jolly Ol' England) asked if she could, she replicated & distributed it. He did not want some publishing company altering his words. Veronica is another treasure of a person in the poultry world...absolute peach she is!

https://poultrykeeper.com/general-chickens/poultry-antiques-from-veronica-mayhew/

Publishing companies don't normally have the fortitude to be very agriculturally savvy, so they don't usually do that too well, eh and even the Glenn Drown's Storey's Poultry Guide back cover of it had a publisher's error on it! I told Glenn about it before it even went to print...ijits! You cannot catch all the alterations to your words... Our farm's profile in Glenn's book has Australian Shepherd Dogs listed as our dog breed and those that know us, KNOW it's do or die Australian CATTLE Dogs...sheesh!

Nice Nice Australian Cattle Dawgs Lacy & Emmy on Australia Day 2016​

With the oldtimers and their books...some of the genetics has been superseded and improved upon (like science ever stops discovering new things!) but the changes to Carefoot's book is more technical than really devastating. Some of the genetics have been dissected more and can be explained more accurately but like a breeder gets no more waylaid if the alleles for pattern (Pg or pg"+") are on one locus or the next, to make up part of the recipe formula for perfectly patterned Partridges, right (say that five times and spit NO coffee --I double dare yah)!

I recommend Carefoot's book because it is simple like there are more types & ways to make a solely white no pigmented bird than jest recessive white (c/c) or dominant white (I/-) but any common nicompoo like myself knows that IF you keep breeding for patterned white in ducks that eventually you have an all white duck...duh...excessive expression of patterned white makes a whole White duck, eh!

So too is the Genetics of the Fowl, that phone/dictionary thickness type book by Hutt, not so up to date anymore...

So one has to ask..."Which parts are still relevant and which ones aren't? Heck if I know??" Carefoot touches on the fact that the more sciencey type genetics books do scare and intimidate many. Hutt's book is great if you need to dive deep and get to the meat of the understanding but if you got some issue like you don't understand why your lavender whatever's are not busting out of their shells so good (lav/lav may cause shortened down and therefore, chick cannot turn about so easily IN the egg to bust out the shell) or your hatch rate of your crested to crested ducks seems low (double up on crested and the Cr/Cr is dead in the shell)...these things won't be easily found out in Hutt's book but people like Sigrid and Carefoot tell you how & why.

And why yes, I have that foul genetics text too but I quickly got bored with the tedious techno aspects of it. Yes, me the golden butted dissect each detail pursuit of excellence person found it tedious! A good book for a more advanced person...but Carefoot's book is the more pleasant chat with the master breeder revealing his methods, thoughts, challenges and hands on practical "this is how HE went about breeding GOOD birds" book.

Higgins' White Dove F4 Chantecler Hen​

Carefoot mentions that many things in science that they researched and studied...a true poultry person Fancier would not pursue as we are not funded by some massive corporation to make mush meat or swill eggers more economically viable. Yuck! But we'll spend over a dozen years of our life bantamizing a large fowl simply because we know we CAN. Who's the sicko now?

Large fowl Chant compared to Bantam fowl Chants​

Next step (first genetic hit you over the head gets you hooked, see!) is the Sigrid publications...I own Colours & Extremes and EVER so well worth the price (beauty photos make the books costly--not sixty buck a bocks for these ones, one wishes--so get another job and start saving up NOW!) and the SIX weeks er so wait for your book(s) to arrive. Bwa ha ha...compare THAT to a college or university textbook list for a semester and you'll tout sweet realize you are being edumacated...and skooling ain't fur free.

http://www.chickencolours.com/pagina3.html

http://www.chickencolours.com/pagina19.html

Gotta fly, so bye...I got a ram lamb companion (yup, got a precious boy that is about to be weaned & needs a little buddy to wail in tandem with!) I have to investigate on how to get the wee lad flown over here...all the way from La Belle Province of Québec. Oh the pickles we get ourselves into when we breed like to make more like and get ONE ram lamb and TWO ewe lambs<--- didn't I say Scott that I wanted TWO boys and ONE girl?? Cripers, in deep sheep and still digging a grave. Where's that pickling vinegar to splash some in my eyes...Oh my eye...

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

PS Dang it Scott...I see Siggy's got a Brahma book out now...dang it--I love to HATE U! Ah well, Christmas wish list...fudge it, so many books I need a full time LIBRARIAN?? In penance for calling me out by NAME...How would YOU look in horn rimmed glasses and panty hose Scott...well?

 

[BirdHead]

Heel low:



Waz that Scott...run me over with the krewl bus you say? Ran across Who, with What, & Where??

​

I list a bunch of decent "chicken" books on my website, bottom of each species page is a list of lovely reference materials for a good winter sit in a chair with yer dawg curl throw & read 50 pages.

http://www.wolven.ca/higgins/ratranch/

Fur chooks, yah go to the Chickens page (duh? ), scroll to bottom and thar you be, eh.

The best book for a person wanting to breed chickens up well and understand inheritance and how that pertains to us chickeny persons is Dr. Carefoot's book. It is about 200 pages and worth reading and RE-reading...and where is my copy...balanced precarious atop the TOP of my birdy books. Yeh, had it since like 2005 and still referencing it! STILL...

View attachment 1115122
Yup, the man on the left that used Silkie crosses
housed in liquor store boxes
to hatch his future champions - eccentric mistrust of incubators!​

Like your own personal sit down chat with a magnificent genius breeder of birds.

Dr. W. Clive Carefoot was not just talk with no action...His Plymouth Rock roo was National Club Show Champion in 1980. His male Herbert's daughter, grandson, great grand-daughter and great, great grand-daughter won the same award the following four years in a row...not THAT's consistently doing what you do and doing it the BEST! He may have been humble, but I shout out he's a WEINER! LMBO

Now, given, he mighta been a tad weird but who here that keeps so focussed on the pursuit of happiness as their destiny don't come off a bit strange compared to the masses that remain simply mediocre stationed to a life of roaring dullness? An odd sod in the heap...well that be moi too!

If you own only one chicken book (past medical ones and a good vet to go to when things go wrong...) THAT is your stranded on deserted island with chickens book.

View attachment 1115121
I own number 234 of 300 copies produced...
believe there was a second printing
but you'd best converse with Veronica
Got my copy!!! ​

- Creative Poultry Breeding, By W.C. Carefoot, MSc, PhD. Copyright 1985, Published by Veronica Mayhew in 2005.

He wrote the book and when Veronica (over in Jolly Ol' England) asked if she could, she replicated & distributed it. He did not want some publishing company altering his words. Veronica is another treasure of a person in the poultry world...absolute peach she is!

https://poultrykeeper.com/general-chickens/poultry-antiques-from-veronica-mayhew/

Publishing companies don't normally have the fortitude to be very agriculturally savvy, so they don't usually do that too well, eh and even the Glenn Drown's Storey's Poultry Guide back cover of it had a publisher's error on it! I told Glenn about it before it even went to print...ijits! You cannot catch all the alterations to your words... Our farm's profile in Glenn's book has Australian Shepherd Dogs listed as our dog breed and those that know us, KNOW it's do or die Australian CATTLE Dogs...sheesh!

View attachment 1115120
Nice Nice Australian Cattle Dawgs Lacy & Emmy on Australia Day 2016​

With the oldtimers and their books...some of the genetics has been superseded and improved upon (like science ever stops discovering new things!) but the changes to Carefoot's book is more technical than really devastating. Some of the genetics have been dissected more and can be explained more accurately but like a breeder gets no more waylaid if the alleles for pattern (Pg or pg"+") are on one locus or the next, to make up part of the recipe formula for perfectly patterned Partridges, right (say that five times and spit NO coffee --I double dare yah)!

I recommend Carefoot's book because it is simple like there are more types & ways to make a solely white no pigmented bird than jest recessive white (c/c) or dominant white (I/-) but any common nicompoo like myself knows that IF you keep breeding for patterned white in ducks that eventually you have an all white duck...duh...excessive expression of patterned white makes a whole White duck, eh!

So too is the Genetics of the Fowl, that phone/dictionary thickness type book by Hutt, not so up to date anymore...

So one has to ask..."Which parts are still relevant and which ones aren't? Heck if I know??" Carefoot touches on the fact that the more sciencey type genetics books do scare and intimidate many. Hutt's book is great if you need to dive deep and get to the meat of the understanding but if you got some issue like you don't understand why your lavender whatever's are not busting out of their shells so good (lav/lav may cause shortened down and therefore, chick cannot turn about so easily IN the egg to bust out the shell) or your hatch rate of your crested to crested ducks seems low (double up on crested and the Cr/Cr is dead in the shell)...these things won't be easily found out in Hutt's book but people like Sigrid and Carefoot tell you how & why.

And why yes, I have that foul genetics text too but I quickly got bored with the tedious techno aspects of it. Yes, me the golden butted dissect each detail pursuit of excellence person found it tedious! A good book for a more advanced person...but Carefoot's book is the more pleasant chat with the master breeder revealing his methods, thoughts, challenges and hands on practical "this is how HE went about breeding GOOD birds" book.

View attachment 1115156
Higgins' White Dove F4 Chantecler Hen​

Carefoot mentions that many things in science that they researched and studied...a true poultry person Fancier would not pursue as we are not funded by some massive corporation to make mush meat or swill eggers more economically viable. Yuck! But we'll spend over a dozen years of our life bantamizing a large fowl simply because we know we CAN. Who's the sicko now?

View attachment 1115155
Large fowl Chant compared to Bantam fowl Chants​

Next step (first genetic hit you over the head gets you hooked, see!) is the Sigrid publications...I own Colours & Extremes and EVER so well worth the price (beauty photos make the books costly--not sixty buck a bocks for these ones, one wishes--so get another job and start saving up NOW!) and the SIX weeks er so wait for your book(s) to arrive. Bwa ha ha...compare THAT to a college or university textbook list for a semester and you'll tout sweet realize you are being edumacated...and skooling ain't fur free.

View attachment 1115126​

http://www.chickencolours.com/pagina3.html

http://www.chickencolours.com/pagina19.html

Gotta fly, so bye...I got a ram lamb companion (yup, got a precious boy that is about to be weaned & needs a little buddy to wail in tandem with!) I have to investigate on how to get the wee lad flown over here...all the way from La Belle Province of Québec. Oh the pickles we get ourselves into when we breed like to make more like and get ONE ram lamb and TWO ewe lambs<--- didn't I say Scott that I wanted TWO boys and ONE girl?? Cripers, in deep sheep and still digging a grave. Where's that pickling vinegar to splash some in my eyes...Oh my eye...

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

PS Dang it Scott...I see Siggy's got a Brahma book out now...dang it--I love to HATE U! Ah well, Christmas wish list...fudge it, so many books I need a full time LIBRARIAN?? In penance for calling me out by NAME...How would YOU look in horn rimmed glasses and panty hose Scott...well?

Thank you! Definitely will look into that book! And lots of help thanks for that!

 

[3riverschick]

The original poster was offering to help others be guided through "genetics of the fowl" if you want your own copy to follow along with him, you can read it for free at Hathitrust Digital Library. Online. that way ,everybody can have a copy as well as they go through the book.
Karen