Genetics people I need Help!

[paintedpoultry]

Hi kstavan - great to hear you have some over there - you should be able to sell as many birds/eggs as you can produce, then, if they are the genuine article. They have been making very good money in the auctions here this year - very popular. Unfortunately though there has also been quite of lot of unscrupulous selling of birds which are not the real thing but described as FBCM. There is also a French Blue Copper Maran - equally popular.

 

[paintedpoultry]

Hi folks

I am going to start a new strand about French Copper Marans, so that this thread can remain about genetics/making new colours in Orpingtons and other breeds. See you there

 

[paintedpoultry]

Hi there all - re. the possibility of sending eggs for gold laced Orps etc to the USA - this would not be a possibility for myself. My understanding is that veterinary routines are lengthy and stringent and it is only possible for a large business which has plenty of financial muscle. That certainly counts me out - I am a hobby breeder! With bird 'flu in the UK now it is even more important.

However, given the enthusiasm I have seen on this forum, I fully expect to see new colours appearing in the US in the next few years - from memory I believe here in Europe we have: Creole, Jubilee, Gold Laced, Silver Laced, blue laced, partridge, Cuckoo, Lemon Cuckoo, Mottled and probably more I cannot remember. There is plenty for you to work on - how about spangled? Perhaps a genetic expert may come along and join in the thread at some point. You have more colours for the Cochins than the Orpingtons and if it can be done with one breed, it can be done with another. Hopefully I can share in your experiences during the next few years through this lovely friendly forum.

 

[kstaven]

My wife fell in love with the Jubilee Orpington and the Gold Laced. So who knows ... I may take a shot at it in the near future.

One issue we face here is that getting APA acceptance of a new color is tougher than in the UK.

 

[halo]

Having had purebred dogs and horses, I understand how there is a paper trail to insure the purity of the breed. So is it somewhat different with birds? If people are crossing orps with other breeds in order to try and bring in more colors, does that make the offspring orps or opr crosses? Im just a little confused how to incorporate other breeds for their colors and still have orps.

 

[BirdBrain]

How did I miss this thread? Oh yeah, being without a computer will do it every time....wonder what else I missed. That bird in the first post is drop dead gorgeous. Imagine a whole yard of chicks like that...oh my!

 

[kstaven]

Pedigrees do not exist within the chicken world like they do in the dog world.

Out crossing is done in order to take advantage of the color or pattern in another strain of chicken. Then bred back to the original line with the intent of getting back to original type conformation (look) while maintaining the color and removing all characteristics of the other type. Usually many years of work and heavy culling of hundredds of chicks to get a few that will be further bred with the intent of breeding true. That is the condensed version.

 

[paintedpoultry]

Hi all

It is equally tough getting new colours accepted into the standards - they have to meet stringent criteria. However, breeders can still sell these colours as Orpingtons and they are very popular and make good money. Many buy them in order to carry on improving them and then eventually they might be accepted as a standard.

I personally don't intend to cull lots of chicks when outcrossing - the males will be brought on for meat and the females can be sold as pet quality crossbreds. I won't be breeding in hundreds - just a small number. I do realise that the professional breeders do cull stringently though. I know of one breeder who culls anything which is not capable of winning at a show!

Lovely that new members are joining in this thread

 

[halo]

So, just for argument sake, if I take an Orp hen and a different rooster, hatch some eggs, and end up with hens that are now Orp/different crosses. So if I take those chicks and cross them back to an Orp rooster, do I call those chicks Orps? Orp crosses? Is it more important to produce the correct type of what an Orp is, regardless of the genetics?

I can see Im going to be shopping for an incubator soon. Does the madness ever stop???

 

[paintedpoultry]

I would say that it would not do to call them Orpingtons until they are looking like an Orpington and the colour is breeding "true" - that is to say that all your chicks uniformly turning out the colour/markings you want.